Bachmann Technical Department's Advice on DCC Programming

[kdgrant6]

I have an apparently defective Bachmann DCC crossover.  After initially working when I programmed it, it now switches only one of the two rails.  I've reprogrammed it several times with the same results.

I called Bachmann Returns and Repair and spoke with the man in charge.  I received a peculiar reply.

He told me the recommended way to program any DCC product--whether it be a locomotive, a turn out, or a crossover.  Bachmann recommends having a separate "service rail" consisting of another terminal and a couple pieces of track.  He said trying to program DCC on an operating layout would cause problems.

However, I have programmed two locomotives, three turn outs, and another crossover successfully by just "programming them in place" in my expanded original layout.

I was wondering about other people's experience with DCC programming.

[bapguy]

Programming on the main will program ALL locos or devices hooked to the main at the same time. If you want to use POM only have the loco you want to program on the main. If you're programming your turnouts, disconnect the wires to the ones you don't want programmed. Program the one you need to and reconnect the wires to the other ones. Disconnect and reconnect the wires with the power turned OFF from the DCC system.  Joe

[kdgrant6]

Yes, I removed the original loco that came with the set.  I programmed the new loco for # 2.  Then I returned the other loco to the layout and left it at # 3.

BUT I programmed the three turnouts and two crossovers in place, assigning each of the 5 to a different #.  They all work fine--except for the crossover with a defective switch, which I'm sending back.  When the replacement comes, I'll program it by plugging it into my terminal, which I'll detach from the layout. 

I can't detach wires from a Bachmann DCC crossover without detaching the crossover first.

I was just wondering why Bachmann recommended something that was contrary to my experience.

[Hunt]

Programming on the main will program ALL locos or devices hooked to the main at the same time.. .  .

Joe,
I know what you meant but some clarification may help.

Service Mode programming using the main layout track will program ALL locos or devices hooked to the track.


Service Mode Programming should be done on a section of track electrically isolated or physically separate from the layout track. This section of track is referred to as the Programming Track

Programming on the Main (also called Operations Mode Programming and Ops programming) is a programming mode done using the layout track. However it  programs only the decoder address specified.

[kdgrant6]

Thanks, Hunt

Before programming the 2nd locomotives, I removed the first one.  Both locos work fine.

But I did not experience what you said I would in regard to other devices.  I programmed three turn outs and two crossovers in place, with each one of these assigned to a different number. All were in the layout, electrically connected.   I've had no problem with the programming, only with the defective crossover I've had to send back.

I don't follow this statement of yours:
Programming on the Main (also called Operations Mode Programming and Ops programming) is a programming mode done using the layout track. However it  programs only the decoder address specified.

I'm sure you know much more than I on this topic.  I'm just trying to understand the conflict of what I've been told and what I've experienced.

[Hunt]

kdgrant6,

Per Bachmann -- A problem controlling a Bachmann decoder equipped turnout can develop when you program a locomotive using Service Mode programming on a track with the turnout attached. This is one of those "it depends on" issues so Bachmann just tells you not to do it.

 

The DCC system requires you to identify the decoder you what to program when using "Programming on the Main" programming mode. Thus the programming instructions are used only by a decoder with the specified address.

[rogertra]

kdgrant6,

Per Bachmann -- A problem controlling a Bachmann decoder equipped turnout can develop when you program a locomotive using Service Mode programming on a track with the turnout attached. This is one of those "it depends on" issues so Bachmann just tells you not to do it.

I solve all programming issues by having a separate programming track at my workbench area.

After the loco has been run in and generally tested (played with ?) for a while, it goes over to the workbench, there it is decaled, detailed, kit-bashed as required and finally weathered.

Then it's placed on the programming track at the benchwork where all programming, using JMRI, is done there.

Once all that's taken care of, only then does it get placed on the railway.

Cheers

Roger T.

[DAVE2744]

I used to program on the main.  Not anymore.  Rogertra is absolutely correct in using a separate programming track.  I have Tsunami, Loksound and Bachmann decoders. Every once in a while, after programming a loco on the main, another loco would act strange.  All have different addresses.  I keep a log for each loco of all changes to CVs.  I would readback the CVs on the loco with strange behavior, and sure enough, a CV would pop up with a value that did not match the log, and usually did not even seem a reasonable value for that CV.  I now program only on a separate piece of track off the layout.  I use Digitrack equipment. Happy railroading, Dave

[Hunt]

DAVE2744,
Discuss the erratic CV read with Digitrax.  It is a known issue that Digitrax command stations, particularly the Zephyr DCS50 and its replacement DCS51, have issues correctly writing and reading some decoder CVs.

[DAVE2744]

Hunt - I knew Gieco could save me 15%, but I did not know DCS51 had read/write problems.  Thank you for the information.  I will certainly get it touch with them.  Dave

[guslcp]

Hunt - I knew Gieco could save me 15%, but I did not know DCS51 had read/write problems.  Thank you for the information.  I will certainly get it touch with them.  Dave

I've used a D'trax Zephyr for 11 years and have never had a read/write problem with it.
I use a dedicated programming track for initial settings and fine tune if required by using POM.
This on a layout roughly 12' x 14' with a large center peninsula.

Gus.

[Len]

The answers to the main DCS50/51 programming issues can be found searching their Tech Support page.

The one most relavent to Bachmann locos would concern Tsunami decoders, and is found here:

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB33/programming-soundtraxx-tsunami-decoders-with-digit/

The 'low current draw' decoder solution is here. Even though the article mentions Atlas N scale, the issue involves all low current draw decoders:

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB362/atlas-dcc-decoder-programming-problem-d-nd-on-dcs-/

There is also an issue with conflicting directions on how to progam 4-digit addresses using different throttles and systems.This is what worked for me, including Bachmann locos, using a DCS50 during the 14 years my shop was open:

Put the locomotive on the Zephyr's 'Program Track'.

A. Press PROG and Page should come up,press LOCO to get Ad4,
Enter the 4 digit address number (####) then press CV-WR and EXIT.
It should be programmed and you should not have to do anything else.

B. If for some reason it still does not want to run, place it back on the Program Track,
   press PROG and get Page,
   then press STEPS, then press 29,
   then press STEPS, then press 38
   and then press CV-WR and EXIT.

Repeat the steps in A. above.
Try the loco on the layout track (connected to Rail A & B).

The one exception to the above is Tower 55 locos, if you have one check the Digitrax site for a 'How To' on programming 4-digit addresses with the DCS-50/51.

Len

[kdgrant6]

I initiated this topic, but it is far beyond me now. 

I suppose I just lucked out to have programmed the Bachmann EX Track crossovers and turn outs successfully while they were in the layout. 

However, to be safe, when it comes in this week, I'll program the replacement crossover using an extra terminal and track separate from my layout.  I'll use this method when reassigning addresses of any new locomotives I'll add.

Maybe I'll continue to have no problems with what I've already programmed.

Thanks for the help.

[Len]

Sorry, didn't mean to get so far into left field. I was just trying to respond to Hunt's comment regarding CV read problems with Digitrax systems in general, and DCS50/51 systems in particular.

Len

[Hunt]

All,

FYI

Digitrax has changed (Jan 2014) their Service mode programming recommendation.

Digitrax now recommends using Direct mode (instead of Paged mode) for programming on the programming track,   Digitrax Mobile & Sound Decoder Manual, Second Edition, page 28.