frequent "derailing"

[flmgrip]

I have the DYNAMIS SOUND COMMANDER- MAINE CEN BAC1403 and added some more track to make some kind of l-shaped layout.

the train frequently derails "slightly" causing shorts when going slow over turnouts ... when going faster this seems to not be a problem.

but because it's such a small layout altogether going fast doesn't make much sense. but going slow the train stops once or twice each loop because of "short" ... normally can be restarted by just pressing stop ...

what can I do to cause the de-railing? it seems to be mainly the very front "guide wheel?"

thanks!

[Trainman203]

What brand switch are you using?

[rogertra]

What is a "MAINE CEN BAC1403"?   Unless you are really familiar with Bachmann's products codes, which almost none of us are, that means nothing to us.  Sorry.  

Derailments fall mainly into the poorly laid track department.

There is no such thing as "derails 'slightly'".  That's like being "almost pregnant".    It either derails, i.e. comes off the track, or it doesn't.  So that will need explaining a little more, then we can help.

As I don't know what a "MAINE CEN BAC1403" is,  I can't help with the "front guide wheels" but I can deduce from that description that it is possibly a steam locomotive.

Anyway, you need to check on the gauge on the wheels that "slightly derail".  For this you will need an NMRA "Standards Gauge" available in hobby stores.

You need to check your track laying and make sure all the rails are correctly in the rail joiners and have not slid over the top of the rail joiner rather than the inside the rail joiner.  Run your finger tip along the railhead and make sure it's smooth without "bumps".

Check this video on how to lay track: -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwrc4gLaLQU

Run your finger along the inside of the rail at the points of the switch where they nest inside the stock rails, there should be nothing that catches your finger tip.  If there is, gentle file the points so that they provide a smooth transition from stock rail to the points.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ISTsEVhLXazr_lW56LUy9SJ4_96NGPcgeKF-9AnKkMM/edit

BTW, modellers refer to "switches" as "turnouts" though no railroader ever does.  Even the rule books call them "switches".  

Hope this helps a little.

Cheers

Roger T.

[ACY]

Roger I have had derailments that I would classify as slight, as in one wheel derails and then hops back on a second or two later and it pretty much re-rails itself.

[Len]

Do the derailments happen when the loco is entering the turnout from the point end, or when entering from one of the branches on the frog end? Or put another way, thinking of the switch as a 'Y', does it happen when the loco is coming from the bottom of the 'Y', or from one of the legs at the top?

Len

[rogertra]

That derailment makes sense, I've had them myself.  If it happens at the points, if the derailment only happens at that one switch, then that is indicative of an issue with the points. I suggest you gently file the gauge side of the point rail at a slight angle and see if that solves the problem.  If it happens at every switch, then that is indicative of the pilot truck wheels being out of gauge.

Keep us informed and we will try to help.

Cheers

Roger T.  

[guslcp]

I had that problem with one of my B'mann engines. It seems the pilot wheel truck & wheels are very light, and any small "anomaly" in the track will pop them off the track.  I solved it by epoxying a small piece of flat lead to the top side of the pilot wheel truck.  Now they can fly through any turnout as it "highballs" down the track...
Just be sure the weight doesn't touch the cylinder assembly right above it.

You should also consider getting a set of jeweler files.  They are indispensable in any MRR's tool kit.

Good luck..!!

Gus

[flmgrip]

wow rough crowed here  sorry I thought since this is a bachmann forum folks on here would be familiar with the Bachmann products

I was referring to a started kit with a steam locomotive ...

I will take all suggestions and examine the track and will report back. I have limited time so it might be a few days.

thanks all for you help and take it easy on me lol !

[rogertra]

I had that problem with one of my B'mann engines. It seems the pilot wheel truck & wheels are very light, and any small "anomaly" in the track will pop them off the track.  I solved it by epoxying a small piece of flat lead to the top side of the pilot wheel truck.  Now they can fly through any turnout as it "highballs" down the track...
Just be sure the weight doesn't touch the cylinder assembly right above it.

You should also consider getting a set of jeweler files.  They are indispensable in any MRR's tool kit.

Good luck..!!

Gus

Gus.

Gus is correct when it comes to jeweller's files, very handy to have as well as a case of jeweller's screw drivers, buy the cheaper ones as we are not jewellers.  .  I'd also suggest an "NMRA Standards Gauge" to check the gauge of your track and wheels.

Gus's lead weight is a good idea if it's really needed.  I tend to remove the springs on all steam loco trucks as well laid track usually doesn't need springs or weight and, in fact, as Newton's third law says, "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."  Therefore, if the spring on the truck is pushing down, it is also pushing up.  However, with "set track" either or both the springs and lead weights are a good idea as set track is usually built to slightly looser tolerances.

I find all my locos pull slightly better loads if the springs are removed as this adds a little more weight to the driving wheels.  So far, I've not had to add any weight to my steam locomotive trucks but, then again, I run all my locos at scale speeds, never more than around 40 smph out on open track.  When running through my main yard under "Yard Limit" rules, the speed does not exceed 20 smph.  As my First Class passenger train are stopping at the station anyway they do not exceed 20 smph and no freight ever runs through as my main yard is a division point and the caboose comes off, cars are dropped and lifted and, in the case of steam locomotives, there's and engine change.


Cheers

Roger T.

[rogertra]

wow rough crowed here  sorry I thought since this is a bachmann forum folks on here would be familiar with the Bachmann products

I was referring to a started kit with a steam locomotive ...

Bachmann produces a wide range of model railroad products and we, as modellers, generally do not refer to Bachmann product codes so therefore are not familiar with them.  Like the product code for your starter kit.  No idea what  "MAINE CEN BAC1403" meant.     One can deduce it's a "Maine Central" something or other and your reference to "guide wheels" hints at a steam loco.  Hence my questions. 

When describing a steam loco, we will say something like "Sound Value 2-6-0" or "Spectrum 2-10-2" as we do not know, nor use,  the Bachmann product codes.

When referring to Bachmann control system, we refer to the name of the product, usually printed on the product somewhere,  "Dynamis" something or other.

Anyway, keep the questions coming and we will help as much as we can.

Cheers

Roger T.

[Len]

What is a "MAINE CEN BAC1403"?

"MAINE CEN" = MAINE CENTRAL
"BAC" = Manufacturer code used by several distributors and retailers for "Bachmann", Walthers uses "160" instead.
"1403" = Product number. Entering 1403 in the search field of the 'Bachmann Store' brings you here:

http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=mt3ssfrpgjn8tapt6aeut9j424&keyword=1403

Note the second item, a Maine Central Dynamis train set.

The search function really should include a "Starts with" option, since 'James', listed first, is actually item 91403.

I suspect the OP's description came from eBay, since entering "BAC1403" in a search engine brings up a number of eBay listings that use exactly the same description as the OP used.

Len

[rogertra]

What is a "MAINE CEN BAC1403"?

"MAINE CEN" = MAINE CENTRAL
"BAC" = Manufacturer code used by several distributors and retailers for "Bachmann", Walthers uses "160" instead.
"1403" = Product number. Entering 1403 in the search field of the 'Bachmann Store' brings you here:

http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=mt3ssfrpgjn8tapt6aeut9j424&keyword=1403

Note the second item, a Maine Central Dynamis train set.

The search function really should include a "Starts with" option, since 'James', listed first, is actually item 91403.

I suspect the OP's description came from eBay, since entering "BAC1403" in a search engine brings up a number of eBay listings that use exactly the same description as the OP used.

Len

Like I wrote, that's not how we describe Bachmann products, it all means nothing to me and I'm sure most other people on this board.  Why should I have to learn E-bay or Walther's code when I didn't even know that's what they were as I never use either E-Bay or Walthers.?   

I'm unwilling to do the on line research to find out what it means.

Having said that, I'll gladly provide all the assistance I can in solving the problem once I understand it, which is what I think I've done.
Cheers

Roger T.

[jward]

wow rough crowed here  sorry I thought since this is a bachmann forum folks on here would be familiar with the Bachmann products

I was referring to a started kit with a steam locomotive ...

I will take all suggestions and examine the track and will report back. I have limited time so it might be a few days.

thanks all for you help and take it easy on me lol !

people on here are familiar with Bachmann products, just not all Bachmann products as there are far too many to have them all. as was pointed out, we don't go by catalog numbers, we are not lionel collectors so the numbers mean nothing to most of us. when we go out to buy a locomotive, we go by the type and road name, in your case man ie central 2-6-0 or whatever.  understanding this and describing what you have in this manner will help us help you.

also, just saying "my train derails" is a useless statement akin to saying "my car has a problem".......where does it derail? when does it derail? does it derail in one or both directions? on a curve? straight? switch? if on a switch, are the points set straight? or for the diverging route? do you have an nmra guage? have you used it to checque to see if your track and wheels meet the standards? have you looked to see where the wheels climb the rails, not where they drop to the ties? those two points are often not the same, and can be some distance apart.

we can't help you if we only have minimal information. please answer the questions posed and you will get the answers you seek.

[Len]

Jeff,

A question was asked, I answered it.

Not many beginners are familiar with the Whyte system for describing steam locos, or know one diesel from another. When I had my repair shop, you'd be amazed how many people called saying something like, "I have a C&O diesel that needs to be repaired.", and no other description.

I'm the curious type. So when someone posts something like, "DYNAMIS SOUND COMMANDER- MAINE CEN BAC1403", as a discription, I'll usually plug the number (1403 in this case) into the Bachmann Store search function to see what comes up. At least then I have some idea what the person is talking about.

If that's not your thing, that's fine. But you might want to lighten up with the, "...we don't go by catalog numbers,...", because there are several of us here on the forums that do look them up.

Len

P.S. Walthers uses Mfg ID 160 for Bachmann because they had one of the first one of the first databases accessable to retailers to order things from. The database they used back then did not allow indexing on alpha characters, so instead of BAC, ATH, or ATL, they assigned numbers to each manufacturer. With there newer database, they are slowly moving away from that, but it's handy to know Bachmann is 160 if you ever order anything from them. Especially when searching for "Sale" items, which they do fairly often. There's a link on their page for a cross reference list of mfg's to their numerical ID's.

[James in FL]

Hi flmgrip,

If your still with this thread, wouldn't blame you if you're not, yes sometimes it's a "rough crowd" here and some like to drift off the topic of actual help.

So let's get back to your original post shall we.

You state your loco" derails "slightly" causing shorts when going slow over turnouts ..."  
Manufacturer of components is not really relevant here, but its good information to have.
You are re -setting the short by hitting master stop. Yes?

As jward replies, we need a bit more information.
Where exactly does the short happen?
Always in the same place?

Try this and post your findings;
Just using loco and tender, no additional rolling stock.
Run the lokie slowly over the turnout and observe the position of the lokie on the turnout where the
Short occurs.
Where are the "pony" trucks (front most wheels) on the turnout when the short occurs?
Where are the drivers?
When you are watching, and when the short occurs, immediately power down.
A sustained shorting condition is never good.
I don't "do DCC" so maybe it powers off by itself, check this.
I realize you are a newbie so here is a link to the proper terminology for a model railroad turn out;

https://www.google.com/search?q=parts+of+a+model+railroad+turnout&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&tbm=isch&imgil=bJQxeuX3lu8v9M%253A%253B3w_11COO66Tj8M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.dccwiki.com%25252FTurnout&source=iu&pf=m&fir=bJQxeuX3lu8v9M%253A%252C3w_11COO66Tj8M%252C_&usg=__NaYevUr-bUAW_44OijAEE4I1t-c%3D&biw=1313&bih=631&ved=0CCsQyjc&ei=rp7NVKKVBIyeNumfgOgB#imgdii=_&imgrc=bJQxeuX3lu8v9M%253A%3B3w_11COO66Tj8M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dccwiki.com%252Fimages%252F2%252F2a%252FTurnoutDiagram.gif%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dccwiki.com%252FTurnout%3B720%3B312

Is the de-rail short happening at the points or at the frog?
What is the direction of travel?

Either way, the first thing to check is the wheel gauge of that pony truck.
Do you have a NMRA gauge?
Or maybe a set of decent calipers?
Or some other way a (precision scale) to .010 or less?
If not, get one.

Some of us will really try to help to find a solution to your shorting problem, others not so much, and will get caught up into petty bickering as you observe.
Hang in there and try to grow a thick skin.
Try to separate the wheat from the chaff.

We were all newbies once.

Just stick to the facts of what you observe, let's not assume anything just yet.
Let us know what you find.

Good luck