Alco s4 sound distortion

[ALCO0001]

Hello,
Was wondering if there is a upgrade for the speaker in the Soundvalue  Alco s4 .Seems the 12mm speaker just does not cut it for very long this is number 2 .The first was replaced under warranty .The 2nd was not.After blowing the horn a few times with the prime mover at 128 as the main volume was set also, it started crackling again.So I turned everything down more and it does not matter .Needs a better speaker set up .Any Ideas?
???Jack

[bapguy]

 Try a speaker from Soundtraxx or Digitrax. 12mm is slightly less then 1/2" Maybe put in 2 speakers, one in the supplied enclosure and a second one with its own enclosure in the cab.  Or remove the enclosure and get a rectangular speaker to put in its place. You may have enough room to put a home made enclosure with it. With out an enclosure the sound might not be loud enough though.    Joe

[ALCO0001]

Joe,
Found one offered by Railmaster,a 2 watt 16mm by 27mm by 9mm 8 OHM .This is the dimensions with the enclosure.Time to throw the stock one out .It sound good with the horn up and everything else off .Has a nice fade at the end ,but is distorted out by the prime mover So you never really here the quality sound that it really has with the stock speaker and enclosure.They did what they could do with what they had to work with for cost of production it seems .Tried a sugar cube SPEAKER with and without stock speaker before .slightly better but still not as good as my 70 or dd40 witch it should being that they put out the same amount of powerl
Jack

[bapguy]

Let us know how it works out. I have 2 S4's 1 a sound value the other I put in a Soundtraxx Tsunami. I was thinking about putting in a rectangular speaker with an enclosure myself.  Joe

[electrical whiz kid]

Make sure the OHMs match up. 
SGT C.

[DAVE2744]

I have a 2 year old S4, all stock.  I run master volume @ 35. Whistle is #2, Nathan P3, vol @ 225.  Exhaust vol @ 255.  The sounds are crisp, clear.  Might be a problem with the amplifier on the sound board. I did rework the acoustic enclosure by opening up a hole in top panel.  This brought out the deeper tones somewhat. Dave

[ALCO0001]

Dave ,
I had a chance to test out your settings as you listed them and the power seems to be there with the prime mover with the reflex from the

enclosure , the horn on mine just distorts everything out when you give it a wale so the power is good on mine maybe too much for that small

speaker.I have herd that even with the high tech manufacturing processes they use today weather it be a car a model train or what ever there

are really never any 2 exactly alike so maybe mine is putting out a little more .I should have the new speaker delivered tomorrow the 20th ,and

should have it in in a day or so .I work slow but sure on these .I had a plan to move the board all the way forward and some how removing the

cab to get the overhang out of there and maybe putting in a interior(DIE CAST TIN/LEAD ) for weight also since with all the glass it would really

stand out detail wise if the measurements permit with the speaker/enclosure and weights
.
Bachmann uses some type of adhesive to hold the cab in place not much witch is good ,But  Do YOU, OR ANYBODY OUT THERE KNOW what can be used to release that glue without DAMAGE to the resin shell or the paint??Maybe some household item?

Thanks Everybody for all your suggestions
Jack

[bapguy]

Try putting the shell in a plastic freezer bag and then in the freezer for about 24 hours. I read somewhere this works on some glues .  Joe

[DAVE2744]

Jack - I fired up my S4 and checked the different horns. The only one that sounds decent is the Nathan P3.  One of the others is very distorted.  Check out the bell.  If it sounds crisp and clear, then I would look at the accustic box. Is it still solid at the seams?  Is the speaker still well secured to the box? Is the box well mounted to the frame? All the small speakers have quite a bit of lattitude for handling power without too much difference in sound.  As a footnote to this:  I have been attempting to improve the sound on my B'mann Shay, and I have found the accustic box is 90% of the solution.  It is amazing how a very small change (size, depth from spkr cone, material, etc.) can make in the final output.  Take a loose speaker ( wired to a sound card ) and put it loosely into different enclosures ( doesn't need to be fastened ). Try different depths into that enclosure.  You will be suprized.
Weight addition to S4 - I experimented by adding a weight onto each side walkway, 4 in x 3/8 in x 7/16 in.  It could pull about 4 more cars - that was disappointing.  It helped some on the electrical pickup.  I would personally not mess with the shell for the little gains produced.  I had to send my original S4 in for warranty. The replacement pulled twice the load as the original.  Wheel material different?  I would do as the proto short lines do - buy another S4 and consist.

[trainmainbrian]

Are you sure the Speaker is fitting in the body correctly.... Maybe its not sitting in the shell of the Loco right... I know Dumb question... That might have something to do with it....

[ALCO0001]

I see what your getting at,good thoughts ,ideas lead to progress all inputs on this subject are considered noteworthy!All can lead to that Bassey wabco horn sounding clear as it does with the great Alco prime mover sounds they have.

I discovered that if you turn everything off except the wabco horn witch is the default number 0 horn .It is clear and crisp and has a great fade out to

it  almost like a re verb built in that is completely taken away by the overload of the prime mover since it  is around or close to the same note ,cord

tone what ever a sound engineer would call it.Don't get me wrong .The sound is pretty good stock ,but if you listen to it by itself you will here the

fade reverb echo sound Ya.Talked to soundtraxx about it and they pointed out the speaker that Bachmann chose to use was sort of limiting there Great sound system to just good. :)Thanks you for your input on this.
Jack

[ALCO0001]

Testing Complete ,
First I removed the factory enclosure checked all the seems in the enclosure seemed loose in spots so I sealed them up since I had this one apart

before to add lead weight in the extended area before the speaker and not the larger portion under the radiator and found oil or grease at the

bottom of the speaker,cleaned this up blotting it dry.Removed the rear board support bracket and installed the new speaker and enclosure there

with room to spare facing down.This is a Railmaster 16+27 by 9 mm oval 2 watt with enclosure.

Wired it separately first,tested with shell off and then on ,surprisingly the stock speaker and enclosure was deeper just a little better,so then I

WIRED both stock and new speaker enclosure in a series/// Horn 1 slightly better and the complete overall sound was disappointing still low little

better low end but the max volumes did not improve much .So then I wired them in parallel and the volume increased like it should by  doing this

the number number 0 and number 1 horns were slightly louder STILL DISTORTED, but the prime mover sound and bell increased Double. The

results were discuss then with a tech at Soundtraxx that basically stated that going by what I had told him without having this right in front of

him that it seems like the sound files /recordings are the issue themselves and being that the prime mover and bell sounds greatly increased wile

the other ones did not just stayed distorted, but the number 2 horn increased clear INDICATED THE AUDIO AMP IS WORKING FINE and the

speakers are fine .The number 0 and number 1 sound files and or recordings are junk,These same horns are used in a bwl rsd 15 in a paragon 2

loco I HAVE and have great volume and clarity witch they use the same 1 amp power output as the Soundtraxx and that was discuss with

Soundtraxx also.So ya a little disappointing but I was told in the future that these boards could be repaired by Soundtraxx not anytime soon ,but they are working on something for in the future they can handle these kind of issues for repair in a timely manner, but at this time they do not have a timely repair set up at this time .Only 1 guy short staffed in other words for now.I put everything back to stock set up enlarged the hole in the box a little to let more sound out .So for now I am using horn 2 and what it is is what it is .I run 2 of them as a married pair and the sound is stereophonic witch is pretty good but not what I was going for after all .Hope this helps,Jack

[ALCO0001]

Try putting the shell in a plastic freezer bag and then in the freezer for about 24 hours. I read somewhere this works on some glues .  Joe

Appreciate the Idea ,I Like it in theory even if it works or not ,it will be tested!

Thanks,Jack