DCC Ready, DC Power packs

[bigjay7691]

I'm new to all this DCC technology.

I just bought my first DCC Ready engine, a Bachmann 2-8-0 Consolidation N Scale, Unlettered.

I started with the empire builder set, analog controller.   I built up the track using Kato unitrack, and all is well with where I am with that.

So I was shocked when I put the new 2-8-0 on the track and it ran.  I read on some site that it was not recommended running it on a dc system, so I stopped.

Now I've read two separate statements, one on a  bachmann web page, and another on this forum, that it's just fine.

So can someone point me to a good DCC FAQ on what is different about DCC Ready versus an Analog Engine, and can someone recommend a good decoder for this engine ?

Thanks.
Jay

[fieromike]

I'm new to all this DCC technology.

I just bought my first DCC Ready engine, a Bachmann 2-8-0 Consolidation N Scale, Unlettered.

I started with the empire builder set, analog controller.   I built up the track using Kato unitrack, and all is well with where I am with that.

So I was shocked when I put the new 2-8-0 on the track and it ran.  I read on some site that it was not recommended running it on a dc system, so I stopped.

Now I've read two separate statements, one on a  bachmann web page, and another on this forum, that it's just fine.

So can someone point me to a good DCC FAQ on what is different about DCC Ready versus an Analog Engine, and can someone recommend a good decoder for this engine ?

Thanks.
Jay

Jay,
All that "DCC ready" means is that the motor is electrically isolated from other components that might cause a short circuit that would likely be fatal to a decoder, and that there is some provision for space to install a decoder.

Your "DCC ready" 2-8-0 will do just fine on DC until you get ready to go DCC.

I installed a Digitrax DZ123 decoder in mine, and it was a REAL tight fit, but can be done with some patience.  There  are a couple of other decoders out there that are a bit smaller, and you might best consider  one of them for this  engine.  My computer is down right now, but  there are several places on the net where you can get installation decoder installation info for your (and other) engine.

For further reading about the basics, two recommendations:
http://tonystrains.com has "DCC For Beginners"
http://www.litchfieldstation.com has "DCC Unniversity"
Both are worth your time.

Welcome to the future!
Mike

[bigjay7691]

Thanks Mike !

If your computer is down, how did you post ?

I checked out the DCC Wiki at http://www.dccwiki.com/Main_Page and it was helpful, and I have searched this forum.

I have an e-z command controller on the way, along with a DCC Ready F7 Diesel A & B , Sante Fe Warbonnet. 

I have a small layout, on a 3' x 6', with 2 nested lines, with overlapping figure 8's, and a lot of trestle work.  At most I can only see two engines running on the main lines, and maybe a switcher of some sort doing a bit of work in the yard.

I read that the e-z command would run up to 5 engines, and I didn't want to spend a ton on some fancy DCC controller, for what I see as 2 engines running most of the time.

How many different types of decoders are you using ?  I'll need another one for the diesel on the way.

Thanks again,
Jay

[fieromike]

Thanks Mike !

If your computer is down, how did you post ?

I checked out the DCC Wiki at http://www.dccwiki.com/Main_Page and it was helpful, and I have searched this forum.

I have an e-z command controller on the way, along with a DCC Ready F7 Diesel A & B , Sante Fe Warbonnet. 

I have a small layout, on a 3' x 6', with 2 nested lines, with overlapping figure 8's, and a lot of trestle work.  At most I can only see two engines running on the main lines, and maybe a switcher of some sort doing a bit of work in the yard.

I read that the e-z command would run up to 5 engines, and I didn't want to spend a ton on some fancy DCC controller, for what I see as 2 engines running most of the time.

How many different types of decoders are you using ?  I'll need another one for the diesel on the way.

Thanks again,
Jay

Don't think for a minute that my wife would let me have a computer without her having one also!

The EZ Command will let you run your trains, but regrettably, it won't let you change CVs, and making consists, etc. is rather awkward.  It's best feature is to let you get your feet wet in DCC without spending a lot of money at first.  It WILL run two engines just fine.  I, personally don't see where anyone would be able to keep up with 5 engines at the same time...

Most of my small fleet is made up of older engines that weren't designed for DCC, so most have 'hard wired' decoders (the DZ123), but the newer 'plug-n-play' engines have various decoders that are all Digitrax brand.  I don't have any particular allegiance to Digitrax, but price and availability for a particular loco have guided my purchases.

Enjoy!
Mike

[bigjay7691]

Like having two kids, you better come home with 2 ice cream sandwiches.

I see that the e-z command, isn't as sophisticated as some of the more expensive systems, and knowing me and how I fiddle with everything, it won't be enough to hold me for too long, but hell it was $54 on ebay, brand new, so I saved $20 on retail, which is enough for a DZ123 !!

Another question.  I read somewhere, that even after I have my DCC Onboard, the engine will still run on an analog system.  This gives me the impression that they are backward compatible. 

Regards,
Jay

[GlennW]

Its too bad the Bachmann forum dosen't have a section for DCC & their EZDCC system. Then it would be easier to explain the difference.

You may try websites like Atlas, Trainboard, Trains, etc. At least they will have info on what decoders will fit your locos.

[fieromike]

Like having two kids, you better come home with 2 ice cream sandwiches.

I see that the e-z command, isn't as sophisticated as some of the more expensive systems, and knowing me and how I fiddle with everything, it won't be enough to hold me for too long, but hell it was $54 on ebay, brand new, so I saved $20 on retail, which is enough for a DZ123 !!

Another question.  I read somewhere, that even after I have my DCC Onboard, the engine will still run on an analog system.  This gives me the impression that they are backward compatible. 

Regards,
Jay

There are a lot of places where the DZ123 is available in the $15-16 range, it just takes a bit of sleuthing around the online DCC specialists.  I can personally vouch for Aztec Trains for frame milling (if required), Gadget Tom's and Litchfield Station for decoders and fast shipping, etc.  Everyone has their favorites (as you'll soon see)!

Most (if not all) decoders can be set to operate on DC, but there are possibilities of motor overheating and total loss of control... not good.
I don't think that any DCC control unit will handle a DC loco directly, that it would need to be done with a dc pack.

And yes, There will be a need for a DCC message board when (and if) the Dynamis ever hits the market here.  I'm really surprised that there isn't already one for the EZ-Command.

Mike

[Jim Banner]

Most (if not all) decoders can be set to operate on DC, but there are possibilities of motor overheating and total loss of control... not good.
I don't think that any DCC control unit will handle a DC loco directly, that it would need to be done with a dc pack.

Close but no cigar.  Overheating is a possibility when operating a dc locomotive on DCC, which is something most DCC systems are designed to do.  The overheating, if it occurs at all, will do so when the locomotive is stopped, not when it is moving.  Operating decoder equipped locomotives on DC is possible with most decoders and does not overheat motors.  It may, however, give poor performance, particularly at low speeds.

[bigjay7691]

Thanks for the  feedback everyone.  I have my dcc controller now, and am looking at various places to get a DZ123.  I just need to pick one.

Does anyone know why an analog engine buzzes when stopped on a DCC track. I'm guessing this is what causes the overheating.

I guess I'll need one line of the engine yard to be electirically isolated from the DCC, and run it purely off my DC power pack, so I can have analog engines sitting on the layout, and not buzz and burnout cause I'm working with DCC locomotives.

Anyone doing this, or have a better idea ?

Jay

[taz-of-boyds]

Not having looked at this for a bit, but will proceed just the same.  With DCC there is always full power on the track.  It is a kind of higher frequency AC signal.  The decoders take this signal and fix it to power the decoder and to provide DC power for the motor and lights.  A side note, this AC signal has the digital messages imbedded in it that are the commands for the decoders to operate the locomotives etc.

So when a DC locomotive is just sitting on the track, the full power AC is sending possibly a large AC current through the motor.  So as you surmised, it creates the buzzing, and possible overheating.

To operate a DC locomotive (this is part of my fuzzy memory), the DCC controller will have to fudge the AC signal so that it includes a DC voltage that will give the DC locomotive some nice DC current to move it along.  I suppose this DC voltage eats into the AC voltage, so that while the DC locomotive is operating, the AC voltage and current are actually reduced and the total current through the motor is reduced as the motor is rotating normally.

Have fun,
Charles

[bigjay7691]

Actually it's not AC voltage. It's DC voltage switched back and forth ( fwd and reverse ) within a digital timing sequence.

So the buzzing the the motor slightly moving fwd then reverse, many times a second.

the way DC engines run on DCC, is called Zero Stretching. where a digital zero on the track, is "stretched" out so long, as the DC engine receives DC voltage.

It's not an analog AC alternating current like in a wall outlet.  It's digitally alternating.

[taz-of-boyds]

Reher,

Thank you for the clarification.  You are right that the DCC signal is not like the AC power from the wall outlet, I did not mean to imply it is.  But it still qualifies as alternating current, which as you point out provides the alternating movement of the motor that causes the buzzing.

Stretched zero's sounds like a good way to fudge things without actually changing the peak AC voltage, thanks for pointing that out!

I looked up the NMRA stuff for those of you that feel electrical today and want something to fill that engineer void in your soul:

- http://www.nmra.org/standards/DCC/standards_rps/S-91-2004-07.pdf

Have fun,
Charles

[bigjay7691]

Thanks Charles.

I'll save that PDF for reference.

I put in a DZ123 into my 2-8-0 consolidation over the weekend, and have been up and running DCC all week.  It's certainly superior, and quite different operating a DCC engine.

Regards,
Jay

[trekkie]

Does anyone know why an analog engine buzzes when stopped on a DCC track. I'm guessing this is what causes the overheating.

I have teh Digitrax Zephyr and according to the manual and several forums I've read they refer to that as 'singing'

My Bachmann Northern 4-8-4 does that when I put it on the track.  I've not decided what I'm going to do with it as far as a DCC decoder.  Lenz supposedly makes some really small ones.

I do wish the manufacturers would kinda get off their duff and go whole hog with the 'ready' option at least, for those of us just getting started it's painful to try and start with DCC sometimes

[mf5117]

on dcc why is it when i put a multi meter across the rails i get 24.6 v a/c and no dc voltage.on the d/c selector on my meter. so is it running d/c or a/c voltage to to the track .i have a large 4x8 layout and my locos never loose speed .and i running 2 electric and 2 40 switcher. so is there a need to run feeders to the rails .