Metal wheels?

[DarG]

Hi all.  I have a unique and very basic setup.  The track is up high and runs around part of the living room then through part of the kitchen and back around.   It's been up for over 20 years although it hasn't been functional all that time.   In fact, after not running for 3 or 4 years, we just got it back in service a couple of weeks ago.   The biggest issue has been dust and dirt and since the track is up 8 feet high,  it is an additional chore to keep it clean.    So that's the basic background story.

All or our cars were pretty inexpensive.  Most under $10 when we purchased them back in the early 90's.  Most are Athern I believe.  All have plastic wheels.  I replaced all the couplers with Kadee back when we first set things up.   I have been reading opinions that plastic wheels pick up and transfer more dirt to the track.   If this is true,  I would consider replacing them with metal wheels.   But our track is brass.  We aren't willing to replace the track.   I've also read that brass track is problematic because the Locos wheels are generally nickel and the dissimilar metals leads to faster oxidation.   I'm wondering if swapping the plastic wheels on the cars to metal, which I assume are nickel plated (?) would exacerbate the problem and/or otherwise negate any benefit of switching to metal.   Thoughts?

Thank you.

PS.  I'm also considering buying one of the cleaning cars.  It will have to be one of the lesser expensive models though.  I will ask advice on that later.
   

[K487]

DarG

Off the top of my head:  Given that your track is brass, is awkward to access, and easily subject to dust, if it was my track I'd (a) clean it the best I can by hand (not using anything with grit in it), and (b) run a track cleaning car around it every month or two (or more often, depending).

I'd also clean ALL the wheels of my trains - engines and cars.

Based on my 50 years of model railroading I'd also change out the plastic railcars' wheels with metal wheels, or do so to a few cars with the rest plastic and give them a test period - one, two or out to six months?  Then check and see which is doing better (i.e. picks up less crud).

I'v never had any brass track, so maybe someone else here can address that better than I can (and possibly change or tweak my advice above).

K487

[jonathan]

DarG,

I happen to have brass track, as well as nickel silver track all on one layout.  Yes, the brass track does require a little more cleaning than NS track.  However, when clean, the brass conducts current just as well as the NS track.  If you don't mind the bit of extra cleaning, you can live with the brass track.

Metal wheels will make a world of difference for you.  The wheels and track will stay cleaner, longer in my opinion.  Metal wheels are bit noisier than plastic wheels.  Just be aware there will be a little more clickity-clack and wheel noise.

Regards,

Jonathan

[DarG]

OK gents, I'll give some metal wheels a try.  Now, what to look for.   I see 33" and 36" most common and also saw some listed as semi-scale width.   I assume the 33" and 36" are listed in reference to scale?   Not sure what the semi-scale means.   I'm not sure what other specifications I need to be aware of so any advice on determining what I need to look for would be appreciated.   A direct replacement for the plastic wheels would be great.   The wheels on all the cars that I currently have are the same size and interchangeable. 

[jonathan]

Some companies, like Exactrail I think, offer "semi-scale" wheels, meaning the wheel treads are narrower to look more like the real thing (prototype).  I have tried some.  They can be problematic, unless your trackwork is near perfect.  I found I had a few derailment issues with semi-scale wheelsets.

Most HO scale rolling stock is equipped with 33" wheels.  36" wheels are for rolling stock over 100 ton capacity and passenger cars.  That's a generalization, but you get the idea.

For replacement wheels, I have used Bachmann, Kadee, Intermountain and Proto 2K sets.  Not all trucks have the same sized journals (the holes where the wheel points go).  So, I mix and match to get the best fit and the most free-rolling.

Regards,

Jonathan

[DarG]

Some companies, like Exactrail I think, offer "semi-scale" wheels, meaning the wheel treads are narrower to look more like the real thing (prototype).  I have tried some.  They can be problematic, unless your trackwork is near perfect.  I found I had a few derailment issues with semi-scale wheelsets.

Most HO scale rolling stock is equipped with 33" wheels.  36" wheels are for rolling stock over 100 ton capacity and passenger cars.  That's a generalization, but you get the idea.

For replacement wheels, I have used Bachmann, Kadee, Intermountain and Proto 2K sets.  Not all trucks have the same sized journals (the holes where the wheel points go).  So, I mix and match to get the best fit and the most free-rolling.

Regards,

Jonathan

Excellent.  Thank you Jonathan, very helpful.    Thank you all.

[rogertra]

Some companies, like Exactrail I think, offer "semi-scale" wheels, meaning the wheel treads are narrower to look more like the real thing (prototype).  I have tried some.  They can be problematic, unless your trackwork is near perfect.  I found I had a few derailment issues with semi-scale wheelsets.

Most HO scale rolling stock is equipped with 33" wheels.  36" wheels are for rolling stock over 100 ton capacity and passenger cars.  That's a generalization, but you get the idea.

For replacement wheels, I have used Bachmann, Kadee, Intermountain and Proto 2K sets.  Not all trucks have the same sized journals (the holes where the wheel points go).  So, I mix and match to get the best fit and the most free-rolling.

Regards,

Jonathan

Generally I agree with all the above except the comment about semi-scale wheels.  I have a few of these and on my Atlas/Peco/Walthers code 83 switches I have no problems with them.  I do not use any "set track" code 100 switches, with looser tolerances, so I cannot comment on those.

Cheers

Roger T.

[Doneldon]

Dar-

Count me in as for going with all metal wheels. Plastic just doesn't cut it.

As for keeping your track clean, well, that could be a problem seeing as how it is placed high in the sky. But there are certainly a number of things you can do.

There are track cleaning cars including ones which use a fluid on a roller, a mild abrasive or even electrostatic cleaning. And there's always hand cleaning which is, unfortunately, where you need to start. Once your tracks are clean you just have to worry about maintenance.

An old modeler's trick that dates to the days when just about all track was brass, is to use the rough side of a small piece of Masonite to buff the rails as it was pulled in another train. Two nails (ten penny should do) are driven up through the hardboard with their heads flush with the rough surface. The nails pass through the bottom of a house car (box car, reefer, caboose, covered hopper or whatever) with loose holes for the nails so the Masonite is rubbed on the railheads, constantly polishing them. The cleaner car becomes quite inconspicuous and a piece of the hardboard will last many miles. Just replace I when I gets grooves in it which interfere with curves rails.

Another trick is to use the tiniest drop of Wahl clipper oil on the rails. Your train will spread the oil around, protecting the brass from quite so much contact with oxygen.

Congratulations on getting your cloud line running again. I wonder, does this have anything to do with grandchildren?
                                                                                                                                                                                -- D

[DarG]

Dar-

Count me in as for going with all metal wheels. Plastic just doesn't cut it.

As for keeping your track clean, well, that could be a problem seeing as how it is placed high in the sky. But there are certainly a number of things you can do.

There are track cleaning cars including ones which use a fluid on a roller, a mild abrasive or even electrostatic cleaning. And there's always hand cleaning which is, unfortunately, where you need to start. Once your tracks are clean you just have to worry about maintenance.

An old modeler's trick that dates to the days when just about all track was brass, is to use the rough side of a small piece of Masonite to buff the rails as it was pulled in another train. Two nails (ten penny should do) are driven up through the hardboard with their heads flush with the rough surface. The nails pass through the bottom of a house car (box car, reefer, caboose, covered hopper or whatever) with loose holes for the nails so the Masonite is rubbed on the railheads, constantly polishing them. The cleaner car becomes quite inconspicuous and a piece of the hardboard will last many miles. Just replace I when I gets grooves in it which interfere with curves rails.

Another trick is to use the tiniest drop of Wahl clipper oil on the rails. Your train will spread the oil around, protecting the brass from quite so much contact with oxygen.

Congratulations on getting your cloud line running again. I wonder, does this have anything to do with grandchildren?
                                                                                                                                                                               -- D

I saw a video of the Masonite trick.   I understand that everything needs to be pretty well centered but that shouldn't be a problem.   I may give it a try before investing in a cleaning car.  

Good guess ...  getting it running again actually does, in a roundabout way, have to do with grandchildren, and Christmas.   My wife has been on to me to get it running so I wanted to do so before Christmas.  Then, on short notice our grandaughter who is almost 2,  was coming to stay for a couple of days.   I knew she would love it so I got my butt in gear and got it up and running.  She indeed loved it.  It was awesome.  Guaranteed it will be the first thing she looks for next time she visits.   So now, I guess I have to keep it running!

I've cleaned the tracks.   I am also trying a product (not marketed to the model RR community) on the rails.  It's plastic safe and seems to be working really well so far.  I apply just the lightest film of the stuff.    I'm not going to name it for a couple of reasons.   I'll just say that it has properties that are desirable and also not desirable for the application so it's somewhat counterintuitive that it is working so well.   The undesirable properties should have showed up immediately so at this point I have high hopes that it offers some long term benefits.    

One thing I was surprised about was that I did not clean any of the cars plastic wheels because I was not sure I could get the line up and running.   They all had that silvery, waxy stuff on them (not sure what it's called by hobbyists).   After running for a while and knowing that it was going to run,   I took the cars and loco off to do a better cleaning. The plastic wheels were clean!  All the gunk was gone.   Never seen that before so I assume it has to be from the unnamed product.   Of course, it had to go somewhere so I re-cleaned the tracks and reapplied the product.   

[jbrock27]

Why keep something that works a secret?

I concur with the previous statements about the plastic wheels.  I, like you Dar, read many things on line about how the plastic wheels made the track dirty and had a hard time believing it, in part bc many other folks said it just was not true.  I believed when I saw it for myself.  And same as you, I would notice the extra crud running Athearn cars with their stock delrin wheel sets.

Like Don, I like to use a few drops of Wahl clipper oil and let the loco and cars spread it around.  After awhile of running, it makes it easy to take an old cotton T shirt/rag and wipe the track sparkly clean.  The oil seems to "raise" the crud to the surface of the rails.

For cleaning crud off of loco wheels, I like to spray either PB Blaster or WD40 on a piece of paper towel, set it on a section of track and while contacting the wheels at one end of the loco to power on the track, have the other ends wheels on the paper towel and watch the black junk come off.  Denatured alcohol also works to clean metal wheels.

I've also read about folks using balsa wood to clean their rails.

[DarG]

Why keep something that works a secret?

Sorry, it wasn't that I was trying to keep my own discovery a secret.

It's not on the consumer market (yet) and may never be.   It is in commercial use but, I think, kind of still being tested.
I have a friend that has access so I have a little bit (that I use primarily for other things).   But, my understanding is that it is similar to a product called CorrosionX.   CorrosionX has dielectric properties which is why I mention that it has some undesirable properties.  Although, since it's not the same as CorrosionX, maybe it doesn't.  

[jbrock27]

Ahh, I understand.  Thank you for the explanation.