Radio Control for HO

[Atlantic Central]

Update:

Items from Dallee arrived today and tested. Their system works perfectly with the Train Engineer!!!!!!!!

The "Keep Alive" is very picky about source power so use the regulator that Dallee sells.

Detection with no power to track was reliable and consistant.

Exact formula for detection of rolling stock is the only remaining question, but since the Keep Alive is high frequency, the answer is most likely a capacitor. I tried one without even looking at the rating - it worked! I will call them tomorrow.

While slightly more expensive, they will be simple to install. The detectors have enough relay contacts built in for basic signaling, so factoring that in - if basic signaling is accepable - they are not really more expensive than other systems.

I'm happy - you may not hear much from me now - I can't wait to get this all built and running!

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

Update:

Spoke again with Dallas at Dallee about rolling stock detection - yes a capatcitor, and maybe a resistor in series is the answer. I am still testing the values he sugested, but almost any rating of non polarized 50-100 volt cap seems to work with no problem!

This combination of the Train Engineer, Push Button block control and the Dallee detection/signaling products has all come together perfectly!

Almost all the goals desired from my orginal interest in computerized block control have been achieved with this system.

We will have:

walk around wireless throttles
simple train/block asignment
simple control panels
signaling and hidden train detection
walk around or central dispatch control
semi automatic colision avoidance

without:

computers
decoders
complex throttles with too many buttons
hard to read LCD screens
high track fault currents


The cost of both the throttle and signaling infrastructure will only be sightly more than the cost of basic decoders for my 150 locos!


Now its off to the garage to build some more benchwork modules!

Sheldon

[Mike]

Sheldon-
You sound like you have most of the plan figured. When you get a chance, it sure would be nice to get a summary... maybe even a schematic and/or photo or two of the total concept. I anxiously await each new post on the subject! Thanks for sharing.- Mike S.

[Atlantic Central]

Mike,

I already have a shematic drawing of the block controller and a short written explaination of the theory of operation. I will be documenting the other aspects as well. E-mail me directly and I will arrange to share this info with you.

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

Update:

Signaling - Now that detection has been acomplished, I have begun to refresh my memory on the details of signaling, both prototype and model.

Nothing carved in stone yet, but the Dallee detectors have enough contacts for simple Automatic Block Signals (ABS) and the relays needed for the X sections at interlockings also have spare contacts. It appears that a simple but effective ABS w/interlocking system can be built with no additional electrical components beyond the wire and signals themselves.

This is a double sided issue. The up side is no additional equipment costs, the down side is old fashioned conventional wiring of lots of conductors. But, after reviewing several different prototype signal systems, there is a simple system used by a number of roads that can be adapted and keeps wiring to minimum, even for an old fashioned relay system - Maybe thats why those prototypes used it!

Since the Atlantic Central is freelanced, anything based on, or similar to prototype practice is acceptable - because - almost every railroad has/had their own signal system and signal rules. Often it was even different from one division to another on the same road. So on a freelanced road, who's say its "wrong". If it looks good/interesting and aids operators in running trains, its good.

When I complete the documentation of the control system and its application, I will make the schematics available to those interested for the cost of reproduction and postage.

Thanks to all who have followed the development of this project. 

On a related, but seperate note, The NMRA just announced the formation of a new Working Group to study/develope standards for a communication bus for layout control outside DCC. This will include provisions for train control (computerized block control and/or automatic control of trains, DCC or DC) as well as other layout features, signaling, turnout control, etc.. The article in the latest Scale Rails notes that current DCC useage is estimated at only 25% of active modelers and the need/desire for additional developement of both DCC and other forms of control is wide open. They also acknowledged the need for inprovements and refinements to DCC.

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

Update:

The first batch of relays, bases and sample lighted pushbuttons arived yesterday.

A prototype of the controller is hooked up to part of the current layout and works well.

The circuit board is being designed.

The system drawings are getting some revisions and details added. Application notes and drawings are being developed.

And, on a seperate note - several "issues" with the redesign of the layout have been resolved - off to the garage to cut wood!

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

Update:

The list of modelers interested in this system is growing - Drawings and doumentation will be completed soon for those of you who have requested or are interested in them.

My circuit board designer is just returning from his Christmas Holiday so that process will get back underway.

Sheldon

[Mike]

Thanks, Sheldon- Appreciate the update. I'm anticipating...- Mike S.

[jsmvmd]

Dear Sheldon & Mike,

I second that!  Anxiously awaiting further info.

Best Wishes!

Jack

[Atlantic Central]

Well,

I had to take a few weeks off from trains to do some "work" but things are still moving forward, even if slowly. Interest is growing and one other modeler has definately commited to rewiring his layout with the system.

Even though I personally am not interested in sound, at least not onboard sound, I do plan to obtain some Aristo accessory recievers and analog sound controllers and experiment with controlling sound features with the TE.

Additionally I am interested in controling layout based sound effects like bells/horns/whistles, so both will be explored.

Reverse loops are another area that will require some new thinking, or the return of some old thinking. There would be several ways to automate them, or, semi automate them. This will most likely be a personal choice for each layout, but I will explore the possibilities.

During the time since my last updates, I continue to run the test system several times a week, still trying different locos, no new problems found.

More to come soon,

Sheldon

[Mike]

Sheldon- Copies arived today. I'm working on understanding what I'm looking at. You've obviously put a lot of thought and work into it! Our local group is building a layout with the two options of DCC and radio control... using older Aristo throttles. I'll show them this and we'll try to "noodle" it out. Thanks again for sharing.- Mike

[Atlantic Central]

Mike,

There will be much more info showing exactly how to apply the system to different track/layout configurations. the drawings are started but I have been very busy with "work".

I will e-mail you directly with some additional info about all of this.

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

Well, just a brief update and a bump to the top for a few new people who have expressed some interest.

Most of  the components are on hand or on order and the cost for my layout has not even gotten close to what 150 decoders cost.

I will be demostrating the system to our local group in two weeks. Several have aready been over and seen it.

One is fully commited to installing it on his layout.

Sheldon

[jsmvmd]

Dear Sheldon,

Make that 1.5!  After I solve some personal problems, I will be diving into this full bore!

To our other Friends,

Sheldon sent me the schematic, and it is beautifully done.  I do not understand circuits one whit, but with help from my son and his electronics teacher, I should prevail.

Best Wishes,

Jack

[Atlantic Central]

Update:

Bumped to the top for the benifit of Yampa Bob and any others following his latest thread.

Sheldon