inclines and train not climbing

[jbrock27]

It certainly is a free country where you can do what you wish with your layout.  At least the USA is; don't know about CANADA

[Jerrys HO]

Hey Bill, did they scare you off!
Asking a simple question here always goes awry.
jbrock, you sure it's still free here?

[billgiannelli]

Hi! No! Not at all scared off!
Love all the responses and debate!
Learning alot!!!!!
thanks everyone!

[jbrock27]

Jerry, try not to get so worried about things there is no need to worry about and just chill, man. It's all good.  No need to put yourself in the role of policeman.  Just let what happens, happen and for things to take their course.  

But yes, free will, free market, free to speak up, free to keep quiet, free to save, free to spend; so yea, pretty free, still

You're always welcome BG!

[Jerrys HO]

Jerry, try not to get so worried about things there is no need to worry about and just chill, man. It's all good.  No need to put yourself in the role of policeman.  Just let what happens, happen and for things to take their course.  

But yes, free will, free market, free to speak up, free to keep quiet, free to save, free to spend; so yea, pretty free, still

You're always welcome BG!

Not trying to be the police at all! So far the only two that had any good input was jonathan and james in fl..
Bill still has bot been given the best info yet and that was asked by james in fl.
Grades have a lot to do with his problem as I see it and assume james saw it also.
Graduated pier's should not IMO be used with a train set, especially with an 0-6-0 set.
I would bet the pier set takes it over a 4% grade. Yes weight does help on inclines but will only hurt more if he is trying to go up the side of the Statue of Liberty.
Bill to get an attainable incline, I usually go 1/2 inch every 9 inch track piece up to about 3 inches in a 100 inch span which comes close to a 3% grade.
Your little 0-6-0 can do it with a little weight suggested by jonathan and a little track designing which was james in fl quest to find out.
My little 0-6-0 runs my grades fine pulling rolling stock, yours can too!

Sorry to upset the other posters but all that info was good but nothing you guy's suggested is gonna get him over the Statue of Liberty without knocking her legs off .

This my friends I have learned from YALL!

[billgiannelli]

Humor me if you will,

Measure the length of the incline from where it begins to the highest point in the rise.
Then measure the distance from the surface of the layout to the bottom of the track at the highest point in the incline.

What are those two dimensions?

James I never answered your fundamental question!
The length to the highest rise is about 52 inches. The highest rise is 3 1/2 inches.
Please let me know your thoughts.
thanks!!
Bill

[Jerrys HO]

Bill,
That is what I am saying. You probably have about a 7% grade! No real locomotive could ever do that alone, much less a model of it.
Jerry

[billgiannelli]

lol!
Yes I see that now! pretty ridiculous!
I am wondering now, in a standard beginners "figure 8" loop set with the graduated piers, what is the grade there? It seems to me that it would still be over the 3 to 4% grade.
thanks
Bill

[Len]

(3.5:" rise/52" run)*100 = 6.7% grade.

The Bachmann 18pc pier set gives a grade of approximately 3.1%, the Atlas set, which as more pieces giving a longer run, is roughly 2.6%. Of course the Atlas set doesn't work very well with EZ-Track.

If you have the room, one way to ease the grade for EZ-Track is to use two sets of Bachmann piers. Measure the height difference between adjacent piers in a set. Find another use for the tallest piers in one set, then make shims half that thickness of the height difference and put them under the remaining piers of that set. Starting from the tallest regular pier, alternate regular (R) and shimmed (S) piers using the standard spacing. So you end up with: Top of Grade R-S-R-S-R-S-R Bottom of Grade until your level again.

Just remember you run is going to increase quite a bit as the grade comes down.

Len

[jbrock27]

...So far the only two that had any good input was jonathan and james in fl...other posters but all that info was good but nothing...

I disagree and would like to know what possessed you to say this?

I can attest, the Atlas set works very well, with traditional sectional track, not EZ track, as Len mentioned.

[Doneldon]

Bill to get an attainable incline, I usually go 1/2 inch every 9 inch track piece

Jerry-

A half-inch rise per nine inch track section is 5.5 inches per 100 inches which is 5.5%. That is an exceedingly
steep grade for a model railroad. Prototype railroads, other than some narrow gauge lines, would never
even consider it.
                            -- D

[Jerrys HO]

jb I will entertain you just once as I really don't feel like getting into anything more.

First of all did you read Bill's question? Here it is again in case you missed it...
(Hello,
I have a Bachmann "Jingle Bells Express" set and added track and the graduated piers. But it seems the train can't climb the incline with all the cars.
What incline can my train climb? How do I judge what inclines I can setup with trains I may have?
thanks
Bill)
1- Graduated piers in a train set should have caught most of you guy's attention!
2- What INCLINE can my TRAIN CLIMB? Hell  nobody but James in Fl. caught that and me if you want to include me as I did not respond.
3- HOW do I judge INCLINES? No one has given him the formula to figure incline percentages. That was one (not the only) of the first things I was informed when building my layout.

Now if you would have paid MORE attention than wanting to start another unnecessary  quest to argue with someone, You would have caught my response from the other posters. Here it is in case you missed this one too....
(Sorry to upset the other posters but all that info was good but nothing you guy's suggested is gonna get him over the Statue of Liberty without knocking her legs off Grin.)

How all of this ruffled your feathers I DON'T KNOW, as I was not putting anyone down just trying to get the correct answer for Bill's problem.
I don't care how much weight or bullfrog snot or traction tires and what ever anyone else can think of, IT STILL WILL NOT GET UP THE 7% GRADE HE HAS BUILT.
The thing I am amazed at is I actually caught this and then James posted his question so I waited and followed this thread.

That is my answer to you MR.Brock, I hope you are OK with it cause it's the only answer you will get. Now let's get over it and enjoy what we have as friends. By the way replace the battery.

Mr. Bill, You have gotten many good answers that will help your engines get up a grade that is feasible but if it is to steep it will never happen with all you do to the engine. This is why real railroads wind around the mountains and not just go straight over them (which would be shorter).

Jerry

[Jerrys HO]

Bill to get an attainable incline, I usually go 1/2 inch every 9 inch track piece

Jerry-

A half-inch rise per nine inch track section is 5.5 inches per 100 inches which is 5.5%. That is an exceedingly
steep grade for a model railroad. Prototype railroads, other than some narrow gauge lines, would never
even consider it.
                            -- D

Sorry D I realize that now that you brought it to my attention. It's been awhile since I built my grades and Jeff W. posted a number, maybe 1/4 in? Not really sure any more as the last inclines I did after tearing up the middle section I built with Woodland Scenics  risers.

Jerry

[Len]

Jerry,

I gave him the grade based on the measurements provided, the grade formula, and common pier set grades in post #23 above. Here it is again:

(3.5:" rise/52" run)*100 = 6.7% grade.

The Bachmann 18pc pier set gives a grade of approximately 3.1%, the Atlas set, which as more pieces giving a longer run, is roughly 2.6%. Of course the Atlas set doesn't work very well with EZ-Track.

Based on the "run" number, I suspect he's using the 16 piece pier set that's better being used as a "trestle" to cross a valley than for up and over layouts. The 18 piece set's better for that, even better with the shim modified two set configuration I described.

Len


Len

[Jerrys HO]

Len,
I know you did after I commented about everyone missing the OP's question.
My testimony did not and was mot meant to include you. The info you provided was great and I had meant to throw you a bone for the way you explained how to use two sets of piers and leave out the taller ones, nicely put.
I actually guessed it at 7% as I am not great at math in the head but the wife is.