Couplers, trucks, gearboxes, etc.

[jimmyn4]

Hi all,

New here and recently returning to the hobby.  I got two Bachmann HO sets for Christmas many years ago.  One was the Power House set seen here in this Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER8c-zX8cHk and the other was just a generic set with a steam locomotive and a few cars.  Both of the locomotives are DOA, so I purchased the GE 44AC Central of Georgia DCC with sound locomotive.  I love it, it's amazing how much better these locomotives run compared to 30 years ago.  Anyway, the freight cars use the older hook and horn couplers, so I purchased some EZ Mate II Couplers to work with the new locomotive.  Well they are not compatible with these cars from the 1980s.  Before I get a lecture about Kadee, I know I didn't do proper research, I purchased the EZ Mate couplers, so I'm stuck with them.  So, knowing this, what all do I need to get these cars up and rolling again.  New trucks? Wheels, Gear boxes? etc.  I thought this was going to be much simpler, I hadn't realized how much had changed over the years. I've already spent a good chunk of change, so I'd like to keep costs minimal for now.  Thank you for an insight or assistance.

[jbrock27]

Kadee gear boxes, #242 will work with the EZ Mate Mark IIs.  I have used them together.  The next part you may not like bc it goes against keeping costs down, but I would not reuse or modify the existing trucks and wheelsets; instead, I would purchase new (non-talgo) trucks and new metal wheelsets and do it all up the right way.  Lots of ways to do that by modifying the bolster hole to mount the trucks.  But, more $$ in materials.

[jimmyn4]

I figured as much, the trucks I currently have are plastic and either snap into the bottom or are attached to the bottom(metal) of each car.  Up to this point I have been a "pull the stuff out of the box, put it on the track, and go" kind of guy.  Will these new trucks even be compatible with the older freight cars?

So to put a shopping list together, I would need kadee #242 gear boxes, trucks, and wheels. Is there a specific brand on those you recommend?  Thanks again!

[jbrock27]

Your are welcome.

The right trucks will be compatible yes.  They should be made of delrin plastic; the style of truck can match the era of car you are modifying: for exmaple, 70 ton, 2 coil spring trucks on older frieght or 100 ton 3 coil spring trucks for newer.  There are also truck types like Bettendorf for example, if you are into that kind of exacting detail.  Brand matters less than design.  Athearn trucks will not work well for your kind of project  bc they are designed to mount on the 'knub" that is at the bottom of the frame of their cars where the bolster is and the screw goes.  However, I have found that most other brands, like Accurail and Roundhouse work well for a project like yours, bc the tops of the truck where the screw fits is flat and this will have the car resting on it, the flat part.
Size of wheels is important: 33" for old stuff, 36" for newer/and heavier stuff.  Brand, I like Kadee and Proto 2K and Intermountain.  I would say Intermountain roll the best but are also cost the most.  Buying in bulk helps to reduce cost per unit.
Essential for this project is also having a Kadee coupler height gauge (many forget the gauge also has an end that you can roll the car over to get an idea of how high or low your coupler boxes should be mounted).
Several ways to modify the car to be able to mount the trucks.  Do you want to know more?

[jimmyn4]

I finally get it, I think my confusion was ultimately based on the idea that the wheels, truck, and couplers were all together.  Mainly because I have no newer cars and the older cars had them together. I guess these are the Talgo trucks you mentioned before?  I have a temporary fix for the time being.  I have swapped out a hook and horn coupler on one of my Talgo trucks with an ez mate coupler.  This is so I can at least couple with the locomotive, it's not a very good connection, but I'm running at a lower speed on just an oval right now.  I have to get through the holidays before I proceed with upgrading my fleet of cars, which is 12 and expanding my track.  Thanks again for your help!

[ACY]

Might I suggest cutting off the coupler box and body mounting a kadee coupler box to your lead car.

[jbrock27]

You are quite welcome Jimmy. 
I understand what you are saying.
Some time ago, a member, Balrog21 as I recall, posted a link to a YouTube video he came across that showed someone doing the same as you.  I recall Mr. Ward advising against that, stating, and I paraphrase: "just because you can do something does not mean you should".    I have to agree, that ultimately, the best way is to mount coupler boxes for the knuckle style couplers of your choice (although I have come around to thinking Kadee are best, but not necessary in all circumstances) and replaciing those talgo style trucks and wheelsets.
Your current plan of action will certainly buy you some time to save for those prospects.  Once you do a car or two, it becomes easy.  And is what I consider a fun accomplishment when done properly, to include adding weight to the freight car.
Best of luck.

[electrical whiz kid]

Delrin trucks are produced with equalization in mind, avoiding using sprung trucks.  It is largely a personal preference; as, if worked properly, metal wheel-sets and proper modification of said truck should give you a satisfactory representation.  For what it worth, make sure [that] you clean out the axle hole.  There is a tool available from Micro-Mark, Walthers, etc that will make short work of this.  Properly finished trucks are vital to smooth trouble-free operation. 
Couplers:  Lose the "talgo" business quickly.  Body-mount your couplers, using a Kadee coupler gauge.  Again; being exacting will pay big dividends in the long run. 
RIch C.

[Bucksco]

BTW....there is nothing wrong with EZ Mate couplers.....

[jbrock27]

Yardy, check out my past posts on the subject; you'll find I am one of the few that post here (in the minority I should add) whom actually consistently promote the use of Bachmann EZ Mate Mark IIs  

Richie, am I mistaken, or did I not see you at some time, promoting the use of Kadee metal trucks?

And both you dudes have a Great Thanksgiving!

[jward]

since my name was kindly mentioned in this post I will add my thoughts.....

with knuckle type couplers, matching the height is critical. just putting a knuckle coupler in a talgo coupler box will result in a coupler which sits too low, from my experience. plus, talgos do not back well regardless or what coupler you use, as all the stresses are transmitted through the coupler and truck. it's like trying to push on a chain. thus, you will want to body mount your couplers. invest in a kadee coupler height guage and use it every time. you also may have to bring the coupler height down from the car floor, I use styrene shims for this. note that the horn on the end of the kadee guage should just slip under the car floor. when you have things adjusted so that it does that, drill a hole for tha draft gear box and mount it with a screw.

as for the trucks themselves, I will often reuse the originals rather than go to the trouble of filling in the mounting holes and drilling new ones. I do, however replace all my wheelsets with ones conforming to nmra rp25 specs. note that the 33" wheels will work for just about any freight car even if they are not 100% accurate. using the larger 36" wheels can cause interference with parts of the car floor. my favourite replacement wheelsets are nwsl, which are very pricey, but I have extensively used those from jaybee, intermountain and Bachmann. all have served me well, and the main reason I like nwsl is the nickel silver colour.  you will probably want to use a truck tuning tool to ream out the journals of the trucks so that the replacement wheels roll freely.

one final thing you need to do is to add weight to these cars. they are all underweight, and that can cause them to derail. pennies glued inside the car over each truck are a cost effective way to add weight.

converting a fleet of cars is a lot of work. some convert easier than others, but the conversions do take time. with all the good running cars out to-day like the Bachmann silver series, I don't do many of these conversions anymore. may I suggest the use of a conversion car as an interim solution. take one of your cars, and do the conversion to a knuckle coupler on one end only, leaving the original coupler on the other end. this way you can run your older cars with the ones already converted.

[jbrock27]

Appreciate your adding your thoughts, although some unecessarily replicated what has already been said.
I do not find 36" wheels to cause any problems, in fact, I find that using them in instances where it is applicable to the handling weight of the car, gives the car the correct height.  Using too small or too big a diameter wheel can effect the height of the couplers.
I like the tip on the styrenne for a shim.  I have used Evergreen sheets of .010 diameter (and the Kadee shims of that size as well as .015s) for this purpose as well.
Intermountain and P2K wheelsets are also nickel silver in color.
I have a truck tunning tool from MICRO MARK.  Very handy, but not always necessary to automatically tune a truck, many times, the new wheelsets roll quite freely.  I found Kadee wheelsets roll very well in Accurail trucks w/o extra work on the truck, but they do not roll as well in Athearn trucks.  The Intermountain roll well in each as does the P2Ks.
I never found the ABS plastic trucks to be very good and frankly have found the plastic friction pin set up to be poorer in perfomance compared to a metal screw against plastic in the bolster hole.  It is very easy using 2 methods to make a set up that excepts a screw using either metal nuts or 2 types of Evergreen styrenne tubing (got that one from YampaBob).  Also, it is difficult to get many of these ABS plastic trucks to be 1 hole, w/o a lot of work.
The pennies are the way to go, using white or tacky glue to hold them down and together.
It does take time, but it can be fun and rewarding.  But I do like Silver Series cars.
I think Jeff means transition car  
In case you missed it in my other post Jeff, you and your family have a Happy Thanksgiving!

[rogertra]

Kadee make washers specifically designed to raise car bodies in order to bring too low body mounted couplers up to the correct hight.

They also make off set knuckles for the same purpose though I usually avoid them on freight cars and use them on locomotives as raising or lowering a coupler on a loco chassis is difficult.   Of course, these days, models are much more accurate than they were years ago so I've never used a whole package of offset knuckles since I purchase then 20 plus years ago. 

As for using 36 wheels under freight cars?  My practice is to use 33 inch wheels all the time.  I model 1958 so smaller and or larger wheels were not used under freight cars, or at least under the cars I model.  I find putting 36" wheels under freight cars just to raise the body makes the car look somehow "odd" when compared to cars it may be coupled to.  I've tried it and that was my feeling.  But you guys know I'm very fussy. YMMV.

For couplers that are too high?  That's what shims made from Evergreen strips are for. Glued to the bottom of the car and then the coupler box attached to the car through the shim(s) with a screw.

Cheers

Roger T.

[jbrock27]

Roger, you already had your Thanksgiving so it is too late for me to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving I am afraid.
Yes Kadee certainly does.  But did you know that Mr. Banner once posted here, how to make ones similar, using a hole punch and drill and a couple of blocks of wood, from Evergreen sheets?
Given your model year, I can certainly understand your use of 33" wheels strictly and how 36" wheels may look silly on a boxcar from 1958.  I of course are no where near the railroad history expert you and Jeff are, but as the carrying capacity of cars went up over time and trucks went from 70 ton to 100 ton, did not many of the cars also increase their wheel size from 33" to 36"?

[jward]

you are correct that on the real ones the wheel size was increased to deal with the added capacity. but most model cars were designed for the 33" wheels, and the increase in diameter of the 36" wheels does sometimes cause problems. two examples that come to mind are the old McKean 100 ton hoppers, and the roundhouse 26' ore gondolas. on the hoppers, I had to trim away part of the end bracing, and on the roundhouse cars I had to use kadee washers on the bolsters to raise the car height, then use overset shank couplers to compensate for the increased height.

but happy turkey day to you jb, and everybody else on the forum.