Help for a newbie . . . Please

[Mrpegleg]

After 20+ years of marriage my wife confines in me that she has always loved electric trains. I got her a HO system made by Bachmann but had issues with the engine.  The retailer now out of business let me swap it out for Santa Fe Flyer which i was happy to see that the luggage car was also powered.  Today I got her the Chattanooga set and want to combine them so that both systems run opposite of each other.  Is it possible to do this or do I have to run them separately?  Also any suggestions for a decent layout for two 47x38 ovals?  Get this I also discovered that my 4 year old godson loves trains too so i brought him his 1st set a circled system.

All this train talk coming from a guy who lost his leg to a train as a kid.....ironic

[Doneldon]

Peg-

There are two operating systems for HO model trains in the US: DC and DCC. Now it's true that Marklin HO (German) is sold here and it runs on AC; however, that is a tiny part of the North American model market. It's also true that there are two US manufacturers who sell proprietary operating systems but they are so similar to DCC that their differences are trivial.

DC means direct current. That is, household 120 volt AC (alternating current) is stepped down to a nominal 12 volts and electronically changed to DC. With a DC system, direction is controlled by the electrical polarity of the two rails. Speed is controlled by how high the voltage is set by the throttle in the power pack or on a hand-held throttle. Every item with a motor on a given length of track will go the same direction at roughly the same speed, depending on things like gear trains, maintenance or wheel size. Operating more than one train with specific control of the speed and direction requires that a person's layout be separated into a number of electrically isolated blocks. This allows more than one train operating on a layout at different speeds and in different directions. The individual trains must each have a power source and there must also be a way to switch the control of the various blocks between the two or more cabs. This makes for some elaborate wiring schemes, for the artificiality of switching track blocks from one cab or control throttle to another and for the sense that one is operating the rails, not the trains.

DCC (Digital Command Control) allows the modeler to operate as many trains as s/he wants, all on the same track, at different speeds and in different directions. This gives a strong sense of running the locomotive itself. DCC does this by keeping full AC power (about 16 volts) on the rails at all times. DCC does this by having a circuit board in every locomotives. These boards, called decoders, identify electrically coded messages which are sent from a DCC controller. Decoders can be as simple as speed and direction only, or as elaborate enough to operate a long list of lighting effects, and even sophisticated locomotive sounds. There are decoders for just about every point between these extremes. A DCC system will often make locomotives operate more smoothly than DC in addition to the greater realism. I suppose my bias in favor of DCC shows but that's okay. Many experienced model rails have moved from DC to DCC operation, and it is commonly selected by persons who are new to the hobby.

If you decide to go with DC, make sure you have a quality power pack, ideally from a company like the Model Rectifier Corporation. Train set power packs have limited power and life span. If you opt for DCC, be sure to get a system which is compatible with the standards set by the National Model Railroading Association. That will allow you to use decoders from a variety of manufacturers although it will not allow you to intermix power supplies or control systems. And please make sure that your DCC system has the ability to operate as many locomotives as you intend to run at one time (then double that number!) and the ability to program decoders. All of the DCC manufacturers have entry-level systems which can be upgraded but do pay attention to the system's power output (figure about .4 amps per modern locomotive) and programming ability. You'll find that the first step into DCC is a much larger one than DC, but some of that can be justified by the easier wiring and greater versatility offered by DC.

Welcome to the model railroading community and this board. I know you'll find a steep learning curve at first, more so with DCC) but you'll soon feel comfortable with the various aspects of the hobby. You'll also make some new, good friends. I've found it to be a terrific pastime for nearly 60 years.
                                                                                                                                                                                     -- D

[riff99]

I'm kind of a newbie myself, yet I've been around HO trains now for about 5 years off and on.  Right now I am back into it trying to get some trains and setups working like they did a few years ago.  The first thing I came to understand about model trains and specifically Bachmann (as I am on a tight budget) is the difference between a DC locomotive and a DCC locomotive.  With DC engines on the same track or connecting track, the engines will move all at the same speed and stop at the same time using your controller.  This can change with certain track like Kato Unitrack and their switch power connection technology, but with the E-Z track that came with your sets, the trains will run and stop as one.

With DCC, engines have decoders that allow you to run the trains individually on the same track.  You will also need a DCC controller that will allow you to run these individual trains on separate channels. Bachmann's E-Z Command Controllers are an inexpensive way to use your trains individually so long as they are locomotives that have the DCC decoder.  Here's a small video I made a few years ago that explains my simple setup using DCC technology:

http://youtu.be/OCDeYgEQO_s

I also have a simple video that shows us switching the inner circled train to the outer track, and vice-versa.  These kind of maneuvers just aren't possible with the controllers that came with your sets, or the locomotives.  I hope I was able to show a little bit about the difference between the two technologies, and what you need to make your trains run opposite of each other.  I know experienced individuals on here can probably explain this way better than I can, especially with your layout question.  Best of luck with everything.

[jward]

the two sets you have are dc analog sets. these could be converted to dcc, but this is not a task for a newbie but something you may consider in the future.

that said, since you are working with dc sets you will need a separate controller for each train you want to have running at the same time. you can use the controllers that came with each set, but as doneldon said you will want to consider upgrading those in the future.

below is a good starter railroad for running two trains. in its most basic wiring scheme, you will want to isolate the two tracks from each other by inserting plastic rail joiners on the rails between  the two switches at the top, and between the two at the bottom. you'd pull the metal joiners off the existing rails, and replace them with plastic ones readily available at any decent hobby shop. one of your controllers would be hooked up to each loop of track.'



I can give you a list of track components needed upon request/

[riff99]

Even I'd be willing to see the list of components for that setup, jward.  Can you post them regardless?  I'm thinking something other than E-Z track though, as I have a tough time with Bachmann switches, and there seems to be a boat-full in this sketch.  I heard that Kato Unitrack is more consistent for switching track successfully.  And with my 4-8-4 issues, I'd like to see what you might recommend for turns slightly better than 22 radius, which my 4-8-4 still has issues with.  My young son and I often change our setups, thus the Unitrack suggestion.  Nothing stays the same for more than a few weeks.

TY

[Joe Satnik]

Dear jward,

I really enjoy seeing the AnyRail.com layouts put up on the board.  Thanks.

This one has a rather pleasant looking shape to it, and, as far as I can tell, no "S" curves !

A few other observations, if I may. 

I see that the layout is wider than 4 ft., which is the standard construction sheet width. 

A builder would need some carpentry or construction skills to widen (smoothly splice) the board.

How about building and showing an alternate version with a 22"R outside loop?

Perhaps someone would not mind that their trains requiring a larger radius (22"R) could not go into the inner loop or sidings(18"R). 

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik 

 

[Mrpegleg]

JWard,

I like that layout you showed and would like to try it out if you send the tracks components.

As for the rest of you . . . you're giving me some great options . . . Thanks!

[Doneldon]

Peg-

If you electrically isolate the two loops you can run two trains simultaneously but they would have to go the same direction and speed unless you have two throttles or two power packs. You could run trains on both tracks in different directions if you reverse the polarity to one of the loops but then you'd be unable to switch trains from one loop to the other because you'd have a dead short. You'd also have the same speed on both tracks with no ability to speed up or slow down on one track without making the same change on the other. That being the case, you could run two loops with different polarity without using the turnouts between loops. Of course, that seriously compromises the options for your layout.

You might find it more enjoyable to use DCC for this layout. That would give you control of two trains (more, actually, except there really isn't enough real estate to run more than two at a time) in whatever direction and speed you want. And I believe you would find much more enjoyment from your trains if the loops are connected. If your long-term plans don't involve significantly expanding the size of your layout or locomotive roster, Bachmann's EZ Command system might work fine for you. It has limited power but enough for two trains which is about all you can do anyway. It can't program decoders, which I view as a major shortcoming of the system, but that wouldn't be a problem if your plans are to stay with this track plan for the foreseeable future.

Whatever you do, good luck and please keep us up to date.
                                                                                           -- D

[jward]

sorry for the delay getting back with the parts list. I could not find the original anyrail plan, the one I posted was converted to jpeg, so I had to reconstruct it. add to that work going crazy, my shortest day this week was 10 hours and the longest 14....

anyway, this morning I was able to come up with a revised plan that eliminated some of the smaller pieces of track. the table size is 4 1/2 x 6, which in reality is only slightly more difficult to construct than a standard 4x8.

the parts used are as follows:

Track
44501, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44501. Curve radius 18", angle 30º   23
44511, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44511. Straight 9".   16
44512, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44512. Straight 3".   1
44513, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44513. Straight 2.3".   2
44514, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44514. Straight 4.5".   3
44561, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44561. Left turnout 9". radius 18"  (remote)   2
44562, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44562. Right turnout 9". radius 18"  (remote)   5
44591, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44591. Buffer/Bumper 2.8".   3
44592-2, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44592-2. Straight 1".   1
44592-3, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44592-3. Straight 1.3".   2
44592-5, H0 Bachmann E-Z Track 44592-5. Straight 2".   1

please note that although the track pieces are all nickel silver rail, you can substitute the equivalent steel pieces from your train sets, i'e 18r curves and 9" straights. note also that your 18r feeder sections are interchangeable with a standard 18r curve, the same goes with the straight feeders.

when I get some time to tweak this plan, I will post an example showing where to add insulators for two train operation, along with another showing how to add a block control system to allow you to run two trains while having another locomotive parked on one of the sidings.