Rivarossi 4-8-8-4 help

[riff99]

Hello gents...

I hope I can ask a non-Bachmann question here.  The Model Railroader forum isn't offering any replies, and you folks always seem very helpful.

I'm having no luck getting any help or advice with my Rivarossi Big Boy.  I "believe" it's an older engine from the late 60's or early 70's.  It's a all black engine with the number is 4005, and from all the sites that I've searched for info on this unit, I saw one that put it's manufacturing date in the stated dates above.  The information sheets at HOseeker were great to view, but it is extremely difficult to understand which parts are required to get this engine put together again.

We purchased it online about 3 years ago.  It was slow but ran pretty well (knowing now it's age and possible mileage).  We had to put it away back then as the front trucks had come loose front the underside of the engine.  I searched the entire track looking for any pieces that may have come off the engine, but found nothing.  I figured it was something inside the engine itself and would check on it later.

Well, I recently unpacked the engine to try to get its issue figured out.  It seemed like a screw or whatever either broke or just un-screwed itself from the back part of the front truck.  I think what I need to figure out is how to re-attach the "front truck bracket".  There seems to be no screw for it or nothing to screw INTO.  I know this is the issue with the front truck drooping down, but I have no idea how to get it back together.  The picture below shows the side of the engine and how the front truck attaches to the engine, but it's like it requires a magnet (kidding) or something to keep it attached.  Please look above the fourth wheel of the front truck and notice how it's attached the the engine underside.  Well I'm lost because I don't know how to get it looking that way again.  Attach a screw INTO the engine OR from the engine bottomside INTO the front truck?? Again there seems to be no catch in order to insert a screw either way.  I'm about to just crazy glue thing and hope for the best (kidding again..........sort of).  I'm just looking for a bit of advice here.  Thanks again for any help!!

Here's the sketch of the side of the engine:  http://hoseeker.net/AHMRivarossiassembly/ahm4884bigboyinstr1971page6.jpg

[jonathan]

riff,

Difficult to see in this diagram, but there was a screw that held the pony truck assembly:

http://www.hoseeker.net/AHMRivarossiassembly/ahm4884bigboyinstr1971page2.jpg

There should be an arm/extension that connects the truck with the underframe via a screw.  You will probably have to tap for a new screw (2-56?).  I keep a 2-56 tap and extra screws of varying lengths for these kinds of repairs.

Regards,

Jonathan

[riff99]

Finally nice to get a reply as there still nothing from the other forum.  Thank You Jonathan.  I love this forum!!

The only reason I selected the diagram picture was that it showed a bigger view of where the connection is to the body of the engine.  From this diagram and what I see in front of me with the under side of the Big Boy with the front truck removed, that last picture definitely shows where I need to focus my attention on.

http://hoseeker.net/AHMRivarossiassembly/ahm4884bigboyinstr1971page3.jpg

Now with the above picture I believe I need to focus on parts 31, 32, 33 and get them to attach to parts 54, and the front truck base itself which is part 55.  Again that's what it appears.  They talk of a front truck bracket which is part 31, but on my engine this part is separate pieces.  There is no indication that this piece broke in any way, but still they are two pieces where the spec sheet shows it as one.  Thus my serious confusion.  Again, I may be way off, and again there is no where to screw down into the front truck from those bracket pieces.  Just so confused.  I'll check for this 2-56 piece and see where it takes me.  Thanks again Jonathan.

[TwinZephyr]

Your terminology, which seems to match Rivarossi's terminology, vs. the terminology others are used to may be causing some confusion.

When you refer to the front truck, most people are going to think you are talking about the four wheel lead/pilot truck (part #78).

Based on the part numbers you provided (#54 & #55), it seems your challenge is determining how to attach the eight wheel front engine (cylinders, side rods and drivers) which Rivarossi unfortunately chose to also call a truck.

I have not disassembled or reassembled one of these locomotives myself so the following is my best interpretation of Rivarossi's diagram.  It looks like #54 is inserted horizontally through #31 and #55.  Since #54 is called a screw, one of the two holes in either #31 or #55 should be threaded.

[riff99]

You may be correct.  I'm trying my best to find the correct lingo when describing these issues.  I guess I'm a tad bit off.  My apologies.  This could be why I haven't heard anything from other forums, but at least you folks seem to try and help out regardless.  TY!

Yes regarding the front eight wheels of the four-EIGHT-eight-four.  I have no idea what to officially call them now (front engine seems odd, but the cylinders, rods and drivers definitely is what I'm talking about).  You nailed my description exactly though.  Part #31 (or its two halves) or Part #55 where the horizontal screw hold one half of Part #31.  The other half sits connected to the underside of the engine exactly where the two half pieces connect.  I wish I could show you though but neither piece has a thread-able feature.  I will attempt a picture of Part #31; how it looked when I first examined it, and how it just doesn't seem to hook up at all.

[riff99]

Ok, I'm hoping I've shown everything in the pics provided.

http://s40.photobucket.com/user/riff099/media/4884assemblyissue_zps9dcfd994.jpg.html

First is the tiny feeder screw I was mentioning and then it with the assembly connection to the front wheels (Part #55).  Then I showed it as it was connected when I first examined it.  Then I'm showing the plate (connected to the engine's bottom) and how it somehow needs to get connected to the wheel assembly.  I tried to show how thin the plate is also, and how it "should" connect together when righted.  Finally I tried to get an idea of how it should look when its all together correctly showing the gear bracket connected to the motor that turns that set of wheels.  I guess I'm trying to figure out, by showing all this, is if someone knows what screw I need for that feeder screw, so that I can connect the plate to the wheel assembly.  Then the real trick is figuring out how to screw the plate back into the bottom of the engine.  Yes the other screw and washer is what I need to make it happen but once the plate is on the wheel assembly, I'll have next to no room to screw in the other part of the plate.  Oh the headache.  But I guess if someone can help me figure out just the screw part number for that feeder screw, then that's one step closer.  Thanks for following my drama skit here...

[Doneldon]

Yes regarding the front eight wheels of the four-EIGHT-eight-four.  I have no idea what to officially call them now (front engine seems odd, but the cylinders, rods and drivers definitely is what I'm talking about). 

riff-

Front engine is correct.

                           -- D

[riff99]

Thank you Doneldon.  I'll try to get better with the terminology as I get these trains running again.

[riff99]

I may have figured out the joining of the front engine to the loco.  My guess will be, once I find the tiny screw to go with the feeder screw, will be to connect the horizontal bar screw last.  The whole thing "should" hook together nicely once I hook in the bar screw to finish it off.  At least now I know WHAT the original problem was, WHY I couldn't find it, and HOW to get it back on the track.  Does anyone have a clue as to what screw I might be searching for.  It's extremely tiny and threads into another tiny threaded screw?  HOseeker's Instruction sheets just don't show this piece.  Hopefully someone's seen something similar in their years of making these trains sing like canaries.  I'll be off to search myself.  Thanks as always for the help!

[Billm10454]

TwinZephry is correct. The tubular shaped screw is inserted horizontally. One end of the screw has threads that go into the threads in the bracket. I have done this a few times with my 2-8-8-2. In your photos on photobucket the one in the middle of the first row shows the tubular screw and I am pretty sure the bracket.

[riff99]

Thanks for your reply, but I think you may not understand the direction of the screw I am searching for, or maybe I'm just bad at explaining it.  Pictures 2, 3,and 4 that I posted from Photobucket are me showing the assembly required to create the "catch" on to the 'front engine' (as I now understand it to be).  Picture 2 was me showing the loop on the front engine and the pieces I need to create the complete assembly.  The bracket you talk of should have shown all 3 holes on it (my bad).  Two of them are used to connect both the horizontal bar and the loop on the front engine.  The third hole is the evident one in those pictures and it faces vertically up with the feeder screw held in there by the hole itself and resting on the connected horizontal bar.  This is where I'm looking for the tiny screw required to connect down from the plate under the loco and into that third hole of the bracket where the feeder screw resides.

However, I'm thinking that I need to assemble the horizontal bar lastly into the front engine loop with the loco inverted, so that the bracket, the phantom tiny screw, and the feeder screw hold together with the front engine just resting there UNTIL I get get that horizontal bar connected through that bracket and the front engine loop.  The other vertical hole on the bracket is threaded in order to receive the horizontal bar.  So as I see it, I just need to find this small screw to fit vertically down in the feeder screw to get the bracket and plate holding together (part #31).  I sure hope that made a tad more sense.

[riff99]

I can't thank the people that offered help to me in this non-Bachmann topic.  It seems I may have figured it out.  If you were to notice the Photobucket pictures I uploaded, that first pic was of a "supposed" feeder screw of some sort.  Well if you look close enough at it, there are a few screw indentations on it, and they actually fit in the smaller hole on the plate in picture #5.  Now it barely gets through the plate so I'm still thinking there has to be some sort of screw that secures that connection, but in the mean time it is holding the front engine to the bottom of the loco once I fastened the other screw into the other hole on that same plate.  I have yet to test it but at least it's now back together.  For how long who knows.  Thanks again!

[Bucksco]

Must be getting soft in my old age.... 

[Doneldon]

Must be getting soft in my old age.... 

YM-

Old? What is old? Please use this term sparingly with model rails. "Old" is a four-letter word in
our hobby where an awful lot of the participants are not as young as we used to be.
                                                                                                                             -- D

[riff99]

Not in the slightest, YM.  I swear it was a shot in the dark as I was out of ideas.  Believe me, I was afraid to touch the engine three years ago when this first happened, afraid I'd make it much worse somehow, as I know nothing of building or re-building trains.  And my terminology definitely needs a brush-up.  You all seem to talk with such confidence about everyone's train model issues and getting them resolved, so much so that I knew I'd come here with this tough 1967 (as I understand it when this locomotive was manufactured) problem that someone might be able to help me with.  Two things happened.  I got feedback, and I got some confidence to work this out on my own.  I'll take all the "wise" man advice any day.  Thank you guys for being here to help us ALL continually!!  I'll be back with another question soon enough!