Help Appreciated - No power to loc over remote switch

[BSchneid]

Good day, recently I purchased a Bachmann "Frontiersman" N scale train set for my son's 9th Birthday, and looking at the back of the box also purchased some extra EZ Track Remote switches (44862 and 44861) to build the first recommended layout pictured.

Well, every single time the 4-4-0 Jupiter locomotive stops on the top switch in the pic included below - apparently on the "frog" when coming in from the straight rail only through the top of the switch "Y" (found this out after much investigating).

Read the back of the switch package where it explains "powering the frog" and rewired the switch as per.

Funnily enough "eureka!" it worked - for about five laps, and then it did the same thing over again.

Any help would be much appreciated - the back of the switch package suggests the wheelbase of the locomotive might be the problem - but if this is the case why on earth would a variation of this layout be pictured not once, but FOUR TIMES on the back of the box?

Regards,

BSchneid



Note in the picture above the train is entering through the curved portion of the top of the "Y" of the offending switch - never any problems there!  Only when entering through the large oval.

[Joe Satnik]

Dear B,

Your picture is worth a thousand words. 

It's a good idea to have the track power fed on the points side of the turnouts.

Move your curved terminal-rerailer to the left most semi-circle in your picture.   

This may not solve all the problems, but it is a "start" to get back to a known configuration.

Bachmann's N E-Z Track turnouts are power routing.  I suspect that an internal rack-and-pinion driven electrical switch has jumped a tooth.

I suggest you buy a Volt-Ohm (multi-) meter to be able to measure voltages and resistances. 

Every hobbiest should have one.

If you have a Harbor Freight close by, you may find a multi-meter on sale for much less than 10 bucks.

Sometimes they have a coupon deal for free or nearly free. 

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[James in FL]

Hi BSchneid,

Agree with Joe.
That terminal/rerailer section needs to be moved to the left, anywhere between the two switch tracks along the outer perimeter.
You have to feed power from the bottom of the "Y" with power routing turnouts.

Good luck

[Mike C]

 Or even better add another power feeder / rerailer track to the other end.  With the switches sometimes it helps to have multiple feeds for the electricity .  You could also solder wires to the track if you don't want to spend money on the track section.

[BSchneid]

Thanks for the help all... I will try the suggestions and see what works!
Cheers

[brokemoto]

I "third" all of the above.  The  rule is ALWAYS wire ahead of the switch.  If you must wire after the switch, then you will wire both before and after.  The B-manns are gapped at the factory, but if you use other metal frog switches, such as PECO, you must also gap.  Be sure to purchase plastic rail joiners, if you are going to use other manufacturer's track.  The above is a good idea even for non-power routing switches, but it goes double for power routing.

While on the subject of insulating gaps, Mr. Bachpersonn, would the powers-that-be in Philadelphia consider selling plastic rail joiners that will go onto the  E-Z TRAK ?  One of the weaknesses that I discovered in E-Z TRAK is that the metal rail joiners do not come off easily and the plastic rail joiners sold by various manufacturers do not go on well.  Failing this, perhaps B-mann could consider marketing E-Z TRAK sections with the plastic rail joiners already on.  Have them with either side gapped on one end, either side on both ends, both sides on one end and both sides on both ends.  Have curved and straight sections available.

One more note to the original poster.  That Bachmann eight wheeler does not like plastic frog switches.  You must run it on metal frog switches.  This is not a flaw of any sort, it is simply that the locomotive is small and has a very short wheelbase which limits the electrical contact.  This applies also to the other two 1870s locomotives that Atlas sells, the eight wheeler and mogul.  MDC sold and Athearn sells some 1880s locomotives that will operate on plastic frog switches.  The Athearns are copies of the old MDC designs, so if you see MDCs at a show, it is allright to buy them.

[BSchneid]

Brokemoto,

The point about the locomotive is well taken, and, if true,  I feel it is grossly misleading for this company to sell a starter box with recommended track layouts clearly printed on the back most of which requires one to buy a new locomotive, with no mention of that fact.

If this is indeed the case after I go through the rest of my troubleshooting, I will never buy this company's products again.

[brokemoto]

The  B-mann E-Z TRAK switches are metal frog. There is no need to buy another locomotive unless you want to buy another one.  

The B-mann eight wheeler will operate on the  E-Z TRAK, even the turnouts .  I made the remark about the plastic frog switches in case you had considered buying another manufacturer's track.  To my knowledge, Bachpersonn no longer sells plastic frog switches.  There are, however, other  manufacturers that do.  My remark was meant as a caution in case you had purchased another manufacturer's track, were considering doing so or took the locomotive to a layout that has plastic frog switches. The locomotive that you have will operate on any of those track plans if you use the B-mann E-Z  TRAK.  

If you try to use one of those track plans, but use track from another manufacturer, the locomotive that you have may, or may not operate. If you use the Kato UNITRAK, the locomotive will operate, but you must wire the turnouts to power the frog.  If you use PECO track and switches, the switches must be Electrofrog.  The Insulfrog switches have plastic frogs, so the eight wheeler may stall on those due to its small footprint.  If you use Atlas Snaptrack, the eight wheeler may stall, but that  is because Snaptrack turnouts have plastic frogs.  If you use  the E-Z TRAK you will be allright.   (NOTA BENE:  If you do use PECO Electrofrog turnouts, do not forget to gap.  It is not necessary to gap B-mann or Kato, as the factory has done that for you.  The plastic frogs on Atlas and PECO Insulfrog preclude the necessity of gapping.  If you ever do put in a reversing loop, you will need to gap, regardless of the manufacturer of the turnout--consult a how-to on wiring for reversing loops.   None of the layouts shown on the box have a reversing loop).

I made the remark about the other manufacturers' locomotives first, as a comparison and second, to make you aware that there is other nineteenth century power in N scale that is out there, should you decide to expand.  There is also other nineteenth century rolling stock out there.  I have a small nineteenth century layout.  I run B-mann's equipment as well as that of other manufacturers.

B-mann is tolerant of our discussing the products of other manufacturers, here.  Please, though, do not throw any brickbats at B-mann over this set and the track plans.  B-mann did not do anything out of line.  The train in your set will operate on those plans if you use E-Z TRAK.

To give you an idea of what is available in nineteenth century N scale:





That is an Atlas eight wheeler backing a B-mann gondola up the coal spur.  I forget where the coal load came from.  The people are from Preiser, the horses from B-mann and Model Power, the barn is a Model Power that I bought at a show and cleaned up, then dirtied up. The fence is scrathbuilt from split toothpicks. You can not see much of the smithy, but it is an RSLaserkits kit.  The buildings on the right are two old Hel-Jan kits that Con-Cor  used to sell.  The track is PECO "matchbook cover" turnouts (the plastic frogs  on those switches are so small that you usually get away with running the B-mann and Atlas locomotives mentioned above) and Atlas Flextrack.  The trees and "fallen leaves" are from Woodland Scenics.  The fuzzy locomotive in D&RGW "Bumblebee" in the background is an old MDC 2-8-0.  The rolling stock in its train comes from Athearn, MDC and B-mann.

That is but a small sampling of what is possible for N scale nineteenth century modelling.

[BSchneid]

Brokemoto,

thanks for the detailed response.  As I will have time tomorrow I will get to troubleshooting with the excellent suggestions here.

My response with regard to the locomotive was partly due to the fact that the back of the EZ track switch package itself hints at that very thing, where it is written that trains with short wheel bases may require rewiring of the switch. Which I did.

As my train stops directly at the frog, each and every time, I anticipate the worst while hoping the solutions here will help.

I will be sure to eat my words previous if the problem is indeed as simple as my own faulty set up.

All my tracks are indeed EZ Tracks.

I should also add that when I started the setup, the terminal/rerailer section was on the other side of the switches, but when I switched the top switch in the picture to "straight" the entire portion of the loop to the right side of the switches went completely dead.

I therefore moved the rerailer section to where it presently is in the picture, whereupon the locomotive simply stopped at the switch itself.

Thanks again!

Oh, and the picture you included is simply wonderful! Very inspiring!

[brokemoto]

Be sure that the switches are thrown to power the track on which the train is travelling, as these are power routing switches.  Make sure that the points are securely up against the stock rail, as poor contact will kill power to all tracks past the turnout.  Also, both switches must be set in the same direction before the train enters either passing track.  The terminal section should be to the left, ahead of the turnouts.  If you keep the terminal section to the right, where it is in the photograph, it does not matter what locomotive you try to run through the switches, it will stall.

When you throw the switch to make the train run on a different track, wait until the locomotive clears both switches, or gets to the left of the switches, as shown in your photograph.