HO scale subway-elevated cars.

[Frankford el car]

Paul F.;

Yes, I've seen the models of the Budd cars that ran on the el' in Philly. In fact, my first ride on the prototype cars was when I was four years old (1960), and I even remember riding the two car series that were in use, when the Budd cars were delivered. Used to bicycle out to the 69th St. yard abd shop complex and watch the activity, as it was across the street from a hobby shop, where I shopped for model train items. 69th St. Shop was the prototype for a four-track carshop that I kitbashed for my subway-el' layout, out of the old Revell two-track enginehouse kits.

[Beatle (TrainBrain)]

Yeah, I'd like to see Bachmann do Chicago's L and Philly's Speedline...NY is self-explainitory .

[Frankford el car]

There have been several releases over the years, of CTA 4000, 6000, and 1-50 series el' cars. If a Chicago el' car is done in a plastic body, I'd like to see either the 1800-series wood el' cars that were used on the Lake St. L', or the 2800-series deck-roof wood cars that were used on the Met L'. Both were closed-end cars, which were capable of running in the same train with the steel 4000-series cars, and saw service up until the end of wood car use on the CTA, in 1957. That would also make them credible on a Chicago-based layout, with either the 4000's, or 6000's, as both car series were in use at the same time with the wood cars, between 1951, and 1957, sometimes on the same lines.

[Beatle (TrainBrain)]

... That would also make them credible on a Chicago-based layout, ...

Guess what.

I'm building a Chicago based layout.

[paulsafety]

Frankford El Car,

Did you mean a wooden car like this:
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/wood/MWSERR842.jpg

Or like this?
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/wood/crt1706.jpg

There is a great gallery at:
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/index.html
Unfortunately, I am not nearly as familiar with Chicago's EL history or equipment (despite having ridden from O'hare and Midway into the Loop)

Paul F.

[Beatle (TrainBrain)]

The first 2 links say "Forrbiden", the the website works!

[paulsafety]

Of course, if the CTA 6000 series was made in affordable plastic, they could properly be lettered for SEPTA, too.  A couple of sets were sold to SEPTA to run on the Norristown High Speed line when accidents had depleted the ranks of the bullets and stratford cars (prior to the arrival of the current equipment):

http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?52150
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?69138
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?69076

[D.Harrison]

Of course, if the CTA 6000 series was made in affordable plastic, they could properly be lettered for SEPTA, too.  A couple of sets were sold to SEPTA to run on the Norristown High Speed line when accidents had depleted the ranks of the bullets and stratford cars (prior to the arrival of the current equipment):

http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?52150
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?69138
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?69076

The 6000 series eventually totalled 770 cars plus one replacement body. The first 200 were all- new construction, the rest were built using new bodies  and using former CTA streetcar components.  The most distinguishing feature is the side door...flat on the first 200 which are the cars that went to Philadelphia...and curved matching the curved contour of the side bodies. It would be a bit-of-engineering to allow for this distinction.  The 6201-6470 is the easiest to model being they are symetrical...the married pair having identical window arrangement.  The 6000s that went to Philly are not symetrical...one car in the married pair has the conductor operating position window.  The last 50 cars were double ended for one-man operation.


Not to rain on anyone's parade but this is  just to point out some of the intricasies of modelling rapid transit.

David Harrison

[paulsafety]

Not to rain on anyone's parade but this is  just to point out some of the intricasies of modelling rapid transit.

David Harrison

You're not raining on my parade, David!  Thanks for the added information -- I'm here to learn.

If the cars in the 6201-6470 range were modeled, I would be willing to live with the inaccuracy (and if I later decided that i couldn't, I could modify the doors, right?  As it stands now, I'd have to kitbash brass models, or rebuild craftsman kits ($$$). 

Paul F.

[Frankford el car]

I this is the deck-roof 2800-series CTA (Met L') car that I was referring to:
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/wood/cta2904.jpg

This is the 1800-series CTA (Northwestern L') car that I was referring to:
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/wood/cta1812.jpg

Of course, I could live with the deck-roof 2700-series CTA (Met L') car, with the fishbelly sidesills too:
http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gallery/images/wood/crt2791.jpg

All better than the usual kneejerk reaction by a manufacturer when you mention wood-bodied elevated car, interpreted as clearestory roof, with open end platforms. Either in Chicago, or New York City.

[D.Harrison]

Franfort el said, "
All better than the usual kneejerk reaction by a manufacturer when you mention wood-bodied elevated car, interpreted as clearestory roof, with open end platforms. Either in Chicago, or New York City."

Count up the responses in this thread alone...five respondents and seven urban areas were suggested.  One respondent even has a favorite for four different areas.  For a manufacturer, their question would be  clearly...what are we going to do with the other thousands after these five each buy their sets.  Is that what you mean by "kneejerk"  To me its just the manufacturer being practical.

Hey I'd like to see more rapid transit but its a question of practicality.  We know the chances of models when we first choose what we want  to model.  Me, with Amtrak and the NEC I was lucky, real lucky.  With UP, I just sit back and wait....it'll come in time.

Of course if you want a transit model from Bachmann,..heh, heh!... get  a special person to work on a rehab project of an RT car in a transit museum and it'll be done.

David Harrison

[Frankford el car]

I don't have a bias against open-platformed wood-bodied el' cars. In fact, I have approx. a dozen in my kitbashed car roster. But the point is that almost every time a manufacturer come's out with a wood-bodied el'car, it's either one of the South Side L' cars from Chicago, a Manhattan Railways 6-4-6 window car, or a Brooklyn Union car, from New York City. The Northwestern L', and Met L' in Chicago, had closed vestibule wood-bodied cars, and so did the IRT in Manhattan and the Bronx. The BMT even went a step farther, and rebuilt wood-bodied cars where all doors opened directly into the passenger compartment, just like later steel-bodied cars in both cities, and elsewhere.

I don't want every car that I like to be produced, necessarily. But it would be nice to have something different than the same configeration being clone over and over. Chicago is not just the 4000's, and 6000's, anymore than New York City is just the Low-V's, R-17's, and BMT Standards.

[D.Harrison]

Who has done wood, wood/steel transit cars in plastic in HO scale?  My transit modelling was mainly in O scale, although I have a lot of HO CNS&M and CSS&SB.

David Harrison

[Frankford el car]

To my knowledge, other than the numerous brass offerings of wood, heavy steel, light-alloy steel, and stainless steel done in brass over the past thirty-seven years, only the Life-Like/Walthers Proto 1000 R-17's, and R-21's, along with Image Replicas BMT Standards, R-1's, 15's, 17's, 21's, 26/28/29/33's, 62's, 68's, and 142's, have been done in plastic. MTS Imports have done the CTA 4000's, and R-1's, in epoxy back in the early 1970's, and Traction Models did the BMT BU wood-bodied gate cars with center doors, along with the IRT Low-V's, in a cast metal kit. MTS Imports also did the CTA 1-50's, in cast metal back in the early 1970's. I know this, because I have a pair of the MTS Imports cast metal CTA 1-50's, and a pair of the IND R-1's, along with a few of each of the Traction Models cars. All of which I bought new. Being that I was working my way through 9th-thru-12th Grades at the time and on an allowance, "new car orders" for my transit roster were somewhat restricted by financial constraints at the time, so I kitbashed a lot of gate cars out of AHM (now IHC) oldtime coaches.

The point is still that in the intervening years, nobody has produced a wood-bodied closed-vestibule heavy rapid transit car in plastic, except for Bronze-Key Models' deck-roof CTA 2800-series Met L' cars almost twenty years ago. And they were impossible to find in any train shops that I frequented, away from Chicago.

Like I said before, I don't expect even half of my preferred cars to be mass-produced. But it would be nice to see at least one variation of a pre-1940 elevated car, with enclosed end vestibules, with or without center side doors. Either IRT, BMT, Met L', or Northwestern L'. It doesn't matter as my rapid transit layout is freelanced.

[D.Harrison]

Thanks.  That was an excellent summation.  For a minute I had thought I had missed something as I implied from your previous posts that a plastic wooden model other than the Bronze Key model rareity had been made.  Now I can breathe easier, LOL.

David Harrison