layouts and landscaping for new york grape growers

[gehdoc97]

anyone know of train layouts for model railroading covering grape growers, harvesting, processing plants, buildings, etc?  We have a lot of brand and independent grape growers here with acres of grapes on well maintained and not so well maintained grape fields.

Thanks for all the help so far - I really loke and appreciate this site and the forum with the wealth of knowledge - it keeps thw hobby fun.

gehdoc97

[Doneldon]

ge...97-

Scenic Express has grapevines which are well described on their web site. However, they are very expensive at $19 for about 15" of grapevines.

          http://www.sceneryexpress.com/HO-SCALE-GRAPEVINES/productinfo/BH1200/

There's a fellow on YouTube who shows how to scratch build N-scale grapevines. It is easy to scale up to HO. I would suggest using longer and maybe even larger gauge stranded wire so the vines can be made to look like they're growing on two levels. This gives great looking vines but it is a time-consuming process. I'd get buggy pretty quickly. He doesn't include any grapes on his vines and I think it would be better of he used darker ground foam than what he shows. Here's the URL:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq-vIdVK20g

Be sure to let us see your results, and I'd like to sample the wine, too.
                                                                                                           -- D

[NarrowMinded]

Im not sure ive ever seen a Grape industaies railroad, overall its a small portion of produce, I imagine you could have a spur lead to an agricultural area up to a warehouse.

Nm-Jeff

[Doneldon]

Im not sure ive ever seen a Grape industaies railroad, overall its a small portion of produce, I imagine you could have a spur lead to an agricultural area up to a warehouse.
Nm-Jeff

Jeff-

Wine grapes are mostly moved by truck but it's not unusual for grape juice to be moved in tank cars. The former Vanderbilt mansion in Ashville NC makes some surprisingly good wines from Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon and other varietals which cannot produce quality berries in that climate. Their secret? They buy refrigerated tank cars full of juice pressed in California but do the actual vinification at the Biltmore estate. Also, large wineries, negociants and warehouses receive bottles by rail and ship their goods out by rail.

You're correct that vintners don't constitute a major business sector for railroads but they do generate some rail activity. Besides, how many of our compressed industrial plants would be served by rail if they were scaled up to full size? Very few, I'm afraid. Some wouldn't even need a loading dock for trucks.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                       -- D

[James in FL]

Asheville NC.
Asheville is located along the French Broad River, where the French Broad and Swannanoa rivers meet.
In this part of the country the French Broad flows north.
I moved there in the early 80's.
I was in my early 20's and a single man.
At that time land was cheap (expensive to me) and prime property could be had for about 6k per acre in the surrounding areas.
To the west, West Asheville, Enka, and Candler, and Canton.
North, Woodfin, Weaverville.
East Swannanoa, Old Fort, Black Mountain.
South Hendersonville.
Enka (the village) was founded on the Rayon plant (Dutch) which employed most of the locals (BASF).
IIRC, Rayon was/is made from pulp wood fibers bonded in a process with acetone. The plant was served manly from rail tank cars, sulfuric acid, caustic soda and carbon disulfide coming from the north.
Cotton coming up from Georgia on the CoG.
Now a collage campus.
This is what sails (boat) are made from among other applications (Parachutes, tents, canopy's, clothing etc.).
I moved into Hominy Valley along the Pisgah Forest when 25 (Candler) my backyard, boundary, was the Pisgah forest at the foot of Pisgah Mountain.

Another mile or so west (from the yard) is the Vulcan Granite Quarry. Still working and will be for a long time.
Hundreds of ballast hoppers every week. 200 – 300 empties in and out per week.
A few miles west of the quarry is the paper plant which at that time was owned by Champion. (Canton).
While I was there, a big ruckus about air and water quality, dumping into the river tannins from the paper process, tainting the water brown, and the stench (if you've ever been around a paper milling facility) was a concern to those who moved there many years after.
I think the mill is still working, loads of pulp wood by rail in (open hoppers) and paper rolls (box car) out
As I recall, at that time, 300+ in daily, 60-70 out.
To the immediate south along Hwy 25 and along the main, parallel French broad, is the coal fired powered plant in Arden where I lived (after divorce). Asheville's power supply.
Hoppers coming from Virginia, West Virginia? Kentucky? Dunno, do know they are south bound.
Lake Julian. Fished it many times, walking distance from my home. We walked to the fireworks every 4th of July.
Every morning about 4am they switched the plant (NS) with 30 -40 coal hoppers.
I lived at that turn out. Walked the tracks daily.
Traveling south on the main was down the Saluda Grade. To Greenville SC.
(at that time textiles), Spartanburg and then Columbia SC.

East bound, down the grade, was Old Fort, Hickory, and Charlotte, at that time, big time, and a dying furniture industry.
Raw wood in on flats or pulpwood hoppers, finished goods out on box cars.
The roundhouse (Southern, now NS) and yard still exists at the Asheville yard Intersection of Haywood Rd and Riverside Dr. (Google it).

Back to Asheville wine,

I do not ever recall Grape juice inbound from the west in tanker cars destined for the Biltmore wineries.
Perhaps it was trucked loaded from the yard to the winery, less than a quarter mile, from the yard, to the estate.  I never witnessed any unloading facilities for such.
Do you have a source of the juice originating in CA, destined to the Biltmore winery in NC.
There must have been an unloading point for this, again the rail yard is less than ¼ mile as the crow flies, from the estate with no siding to the estate.
Vanderbilt gave over 500k acers to the state, later to become Pisgah forest...
Maybe I missed something?
Can you help me on this history?
Sometimes I wish I would move back there.

Personally, I don't see an investment (over 20-30) years In Biltmore wines, any better than I do see an investment in HO locomotives held for the same time.
But that's just me.
YMMV.

[James in FL]

As an afterthought,
When I first got settled in Carolina,
In Arden, there was a plant for the DoD, just below (½ mile south of the power plant) on Hyw 25.

The siding crossed the road into a factory that made Propellers? (Who knows... was big secret back then in the cold war days). For the Navy?
Metal in on flats and Coil cars, coming from the north.
Tarped loads out on flat cars southbound down the Saluda grade. I always assumed to Charleston or Savannah.
They had a manned hut, with several armed guards, at the beginning of the drive into the parking lot.
I recall asking them about possible employment at the gate house, their reply was rather cold. I was asked to pull to the side where upon my car was searched and I was interrogated.
They made it quite clear, that it would be in my best interest, to never enter into the property again.

About '84-'85 the plant was shut down and the siding was paved over. Was still abandoned when I left Carolina in '03.

[Doneldon]

James-

I got the information about the California grape juice directly from one of the vintners at Biltmore. Wine is one of my expensive hobbies, so much so that I am credentialed as a sommelier. Naturally, I was quite surprised by the quality if the vinifera wines at the Biltmore so I dug into why. That led to a behind the scenes tour and some conversation with the wine makers.

It's much, much cheaper to move something heavy like liquid by rail than in the four or five trucks needed to move a similar quantity of liquid by highway. I don't think, and I didn't say, the juice was delivered by rail directly to the estate. I imagine it was offloaded from the railcar(s) to trucks which moved it the last few miles.

As for the propellers, or "screws" to be exact: Yes, their design is very high tech and secret. I can easily understand that there would be a lot of security around their manufacture. There are three main reasons for this. First, efficiency is very important, especially underwater. You have a finite amount of power, even on nuke boats, and you don't want to waste it because waste might require a larger power plant to get the same speed. The second reason is sound, or rather the absence of it. Submarines' main advantage is their ability to move around silently. The last thing you want is for your enemies to have submarines which are as quiet as your own. Last, you don't want propellers which introduce vibration into your drive line because that will stress your system. In the case of submarines, it might also make more noise. The first and last of these reasons apply to surface vessels as well as to submersibles.
                                                                                                                                              -- D

[James in FL]

Thanks.

Rumor was propellers and "valves" for subs were made there.
At that time in my life I was a welder, looking for work in a new town, I was looking for opportunity.
Finished goods may have well been destined for Newport News.

Still have a daughter and son-in-law in West Asheville.
Whenever I'm up there, I always make a little time to railfan the yard.
My next trip up I'll look a bit deeper into where the juice unloading might be taking place.
I don't know production quantity requirements now, but back then early-mid 80's was not much.
Maybe that's why it was missed.
Never was much into wine, booty coming back home with me is mainly locally produced honey, fatback, apple butter and Muscadine jam and jelly.

To the OP...sorry for the hijack.

Good luck with your vineyard and post some pics.

[Doneldon]

I don't know production quantity requirements now, but back then early-mid 80's was not much.

James-

We were there around 2003 or 2004 and their wine was a big deal. They served it in their dining room,
had a tasting room and even sold cases to be delivered to your home.
                                                                                                            -- D