plastic frogs vs steel frogs on turnouts

[gehdoc97]

Hello -
I seem to have alot of derailments especially with my caboose and a small coal car.  I was talking to another railroader and he had the same problem.  When he returned his track and got turnouts with steel frogs he has not had any derailments.  

Is there an issue with the plastic frogs on turnouts such that maybe they are not level, stable, etc?

I would like to stop the derailments.  I currently have two left and two right turnouts and they are all plastic with the same problem.

Thanks again for the help.

Gary

[rogertra]

1) What brand of track are you using?  Some brands of track are better than others.

2)  If only two cars are derailing and everything else runs fine through your switches with no problems, then the problem is with the two cars that are derailing, not the switches.

Cheers

Roger T.

[gehdoc97]

Hello RogerTra

I am using the EZ Trac Nickel Silver track with gray ballast.
If that is the case with the two smallest cars in my consist what possibly could be the issue?
The cars came with the Train set I purchased which is the Sante Fe Warbonnet that also came
with another Sante Fe loco - the blue one.

At first they seemed to run fine but then developed problems.

I also had a Concor flatbed with logs keep derailing but that turned out to be a defective coupler - once I repaired that
it has been running great.

Thanks for the response.

Gary

[jbrock27]

ge, do you have an NMRA standards guage to check the guage of the wheelsets on the problematic cars?

PS.  If RichieG were here first, he would post a warning about your posting your email address in a post.  See if you can Modify your post to delete it.  He would warn you about scammers and spammers, etc. 

[richg]

ge, do you have an NMRA standards guage to check the guage of the wheelsets on the problematic cars?

PS.  If RichieG were here first, he would post a warning about your posting your email address in a post.  See if you can Modify your post to delete it.  He would warn you about scammers and spammers, etc. 

If your email address is not hidden in your profile, any registered user can PM you very easily. Users have control of this.
Scammers and hackers run software automatically that scans the Internet for PC's that are not protected, no anti virus, and any possible email addresses. Take time to learn how to use the Bachmann forums. For your protection.

Rich

[jward]

if I understand the op correctly, the plastic frog switches he is referring to would be the 18r ones used in train sets and expansion packs. these are really too sharp for me to recommend their use.

the switches with the metal frogs would be the numbered frog ones such as #4, #5, or #6. naturally, those will be less derailment prone, their curves are much gentler.

this is especially true if the switches are used in a crossover configuration, which results in an 18r s curve. that s curve would probably cause a derailment when car ends swing in opposite directions negotiating the crossover. if the car ends swing out further than the couplers can swing, you have an instant derailment.

[Doneldon]

g...97-

Your post is good testimony for the value of keeping good records on mishaps. When you have a derailment, there can be many causes, and even combinations of causes. Good records about problems (electrical continuity gaps, derailments, coupler failings and others) will generally point to the cause(s) of a problem.

You seem to be having trouble with two cars on two turnouts. Assuming other cars do not derail at these turnouts, the cars would seem to be the source of your difficulty. However, it sounds like those two cars operate well on your other turnouts so your problem may not be limited to only the cars or only the turnouts.

Turnout problems are generally more difficult to fix than car problems, so let's start there. Another respondent asked if you have an NMRA gauge. I can't overstress the value of having one, even though it can't roll down the track or add to your scenery. It is a tool which is every bit as important as a screwdriver or hobby knife. NMRA gauges are the only way to check things like the distance between wheels, track gauge, rolling stock clearance, flangeways and several other aspects of reliable operation. If you have one, check that the rails are the correct distance apart at and near the points here derailments occur. Also check to be sure the flangeways are deep enough that your cars' wheels aren't making contact at their rims. If you find any discrepancies, you may be able to adjust things by the judicious application of rail spikes to move and hold the rails in the correct locations. That's a bit harder with turnouts than with plain track, but it's often possible to get things squared away. If your wheels' rims are contacting the ties or plastic "spikes" on your turnouts you'll need to either deepen the clearance or make the flanges smaller. This is not for the faint of heart. Deepening flangeways can easily set your rails adrift, destroying the turnout. Using metal spikes with thinner heads than the molded in plastic ones might be possible but that works, or not, on a case by case basis. Often, you'll find that replacing the entire turnout is necessary.

There are more possible problems with your rolling stock than with the turnouts but they're easier to correct. First, check the gauge of your wheels. They can easily be twisted into the right places if they are out of spec. Recognize that any or all axles can be problematic so you must check all of them. Keep in mind that the wheels should be relatively centered on their axles for best operation. That's not generally a major problem but you do want to ensure that you don't adjust the wheels on one axle of a truck to the right and the wheels on the other axle to the left. That will make the truck move somewhat crabwise down the track, causing other tracking and coupling troubles. One of your trucks should be free to swivel but not so free as to let its car rock on the axle. The other ruck should be loose enough to allow both swiveling and a little rocking. Next (actually, this is the first place to work on), check the weights of your cars. It might seem that new equipment will have the correct weight but that's simply an unwarranted assumption. Your HO cars should weigh one ounce plus one-half ounce for every inch of length. Thus, a six-inch long car should weigh four ounces [1 + (6 x .5)]. You can use a scale at the post office if you don't have an accurate lightweight scale at home. Anything can be used for weight. It is best if you can add weight so that it rests roughly equally on both trucks. Be sure to fix it down so it isn't moving around inside your cars.

If these things don't solve your derailment problems, check the specs of your couplers using the NMRA gauge and a coupler gauge. Misaligned couplers or couplers at the wrong height can cause unscheduled uncoupling, of course, but these problems can also lead to derailments. If the couplers on the offending cars are within specs, check the couplers on the adjacent cars to make sure they aren't pushing the offending cars off of the track. (See why careful records are needed for quick and accurate diagnosis?)

Just as an aside -- another useful tool is a "flatcar from Micro Mark. It has a slab of clear plexiglass for its carbody so you can see your wheels and couplers work as you slowly push the car through a problem area or slowly move it through a problem area with a locomotive. I find that finger pushing works best as I can more precisely control speed and direction, allowing me to identify the problem more easily.

Good luck with your trouble shooting. Do let us know what you find out and how the repairs work.
                                                                                                                                                   -- D

[jbrock27]

*A note about the use of "snap switches": If one spent time on other forums, they would find many people successfully employ the use of  snap switches (non Bachmann). Some have even used them to make crossovers, without problems (or at least so they claim-I have no reason to not take them at their word).  Not everyone has the space to use #6s or the money to replace all their snap switches with #4s for example.  The point, lots of people use snap switches without the turnout being the problem.
As I stated earlier, I am of the mindset the first place to start is checking the problematic rolling stock.

[jward]

there are also those who claim they can back 20 car trains of tyco equipment through those without derailing as well. probably the same ones with a doicksider that pulls 40 cars up a 6% grade....just saying

[rogertra]

there are also those who claim they can back 20 car trains of tyco equipment through those without derailing as well. probably the same ones with a doicksider that pulls 40 cars up a 6% grade....just saying

At a scale 60 mph!

Cheers

Roger T.

[jbrock27]

Yes, I know what you are saying.  Although, I have never come across those 2 particular claims.  There is a fine balance to be struck between believing those at their word who say how things can't or shouldn't be done and those who say they can and have done the very same things.   There are people who claim that over their generations of model railroading, they have had problems with certain products and would not therefore recommend them and there are those who claim over the same amount of time, to not have had problems with the same products and would recommend them.
Speaking of TYCO, you should check out their forum sometime, if you have not already.  They seem more willing and accepting of discussions on various concepts and discussions on a more varied range of products.