Cans on back of Climax and Shay

[mickeykelley]

I read somewhere that the gas can looking things on the back of these engines were for sand.  What was the use of the sand?

While I'm at it, I understand the hose is for sucking water out of rivers, lakes, whatever.  But on the 3 truck Shay, it looks like a water dump up top to move water from front bunker to back, but how does the water get from that back truck up to the engine to be used?

[the Bach-man]

Dear Mickey,
The sand on all steam locos (and diesels too!) is released onto the rails for traction when starting and on grades.
On a Shay, there is a water pump to fill the tank from available sources, like a trackside creek. Since the pump is steam powered it is on the loco, so the water is pumped through the pipe into the water tank, which is on the third truck.
Have fun!
the Bach-man

[mickeykelley]

Learned more.  Thanks.

[VirginiaCentral]

Mr Bachmann, it is not a water pump.  It is a syphon.  Steam is used to create a vacuum in the water hose, thus sucking the water from the stream into the tank.  Once the water starts flowing, the steam is turned off and the water continues to flow until the tank is filled.  

Jerry Kay, Portsmouth, VA.

[mickeykelley]

I'm not a physicist but I believe for a siphon mechanism to work, the liquid end and the want to have liquid end have to be fairly close to the same level.  Going against gravity is a bit of a problem. At least that has been my experience when trying to siphon gas out of my car for lawn mower (back before I invented the automatic mowing fertilizer machine more commonly referred to a COW) or getting rainwater out of a backyard pond.  But I'm no expert.

[Wade Colyer]

It works like Jerry said.

Wade

[Chuck N]

I agree that the steam passing over a hole in the water line would create a vacuum, but I don't see how once the vacuum is turned off the water would continue to flow.  Water does not go uphill unless there is a pump or vacuum.

I have an emergency backup on my sump pump line that uses city water pressure to remove water in the sump when there is a power failure, but it can't work if I turn off the water.

Chuck

[mickeykelley]

One question not answered was how the water in the back gets up to the boiler?

And by looking at the cans, there is a small something hanging down under each can.  It looks like its aligned to let the sand out on the rail.  So I'm assuming a release lever of some sort.  But since in the back of engine, I guess they would let's some dirt out and back over it?

[Wade Colyer]

Water in the tender is put in the boiler, which is under pressure, by a device called an injector. Like the siphon, it used steam. It has no moving parts and works pretty good. Anyone wanting more details on steam engine operation just google it. There is plenty of information on the web.

As for the sand boxes on the rear, logging engines do run both directions, you know. They didn't work as good as the sand dome on top of the boiler because the sand there was dry from the heat and flowed better. Today's locomotives mainly use sand in emergency braking as the on board computers and ground radar take care of any wheel slippage.

Wade ( 33 years a locomotive engineer )

[mickeykelley]

I guess my question was not worded right.  I did google how the steam engine works and learned a lot. The question is more a simple question.  If the water is way back in the trailing tender, how does it get all the way up to the boiler?  Is there a garden hose or what?  Obviously our models are not 100% detail and I'm not a train rivet person.  Just curious on the process.

[CCSG]

I can speak from my experience operating K-36 and K-28 class locomotives on the D&SNG. On the locomotives, there are large hoses (4" or so) on each side of the front of the tender coming out of the bottom of what is referred to as the tank leg. Water is gravity fed from there into the injectors which are mounted under the cab. Up in the cab are the injector starting valves which control the steam to the injectors and how much water is fed into the boilers. Too much water for the amount of fire, the boiler pressure drops. Too little water for the amount of steam the locomotive is using, the water in the boiler drops, causing a dangerous situation. As a fireman, you try to balance these variables out while the engine is working. When going up grade, the water in the tender rolls to back of the tender. At a certain point, you may not be able to feed the injectors while there is still water in the tank. A situation, you do not want.

This is basically the set up on all rod locomotives. I do not have any experience on geared locomotives but imagine it is similar with a pipe/hose or combination running from the water tank to the injector, then a pipe to the boiler check valve and into the boiler. Hope that's helpful.

Patrick

[mickeykelley]

Thanks. I was assuming there was some hose/pipe connection from the tender to the engine but never seemed to catchy glimpse of it in pictures.