Dumb question about boxcars

[Swordsman422]

Hey guys,

What boxcars were in general use from about 1940-1950 to move dry goods and nonperish. I'm trying to model this time period fairly accurately and would like to know what is too early and what is too late?

Also, are there any references available as to what sort of traffic was moving through Michigan and Illinois during that period?

Thanks.

[Bill Baker]

I'm not a railroad historian and I'm sure some of our historians can give you better answers, but for the most part wooden box cars 40 feet in length were the norm.  Steel box cars didn't really come into use until after World War II was over and steel was more available. For your time range both 40 and 50 footers would be appropriate with a few of them being steel.  On occasion you might find some older 36 footers being hauled, but they were being phased out during your time period.

Bill

[Swordsman422]

Thanks. I was trying mostly to stick with wooden '40s anyway, as they just look very nice. I have a few steel '40s but not many. The layout I am working on models a fictional southern Michigan town in the winter of 1947, so I think I've been making proper roling stock choices. Thanks.

[Atlantic Central]

Actually,

By the late 30's most new cars where steel, or steel with wood sheathed sides, but old cars lasted many years and wood cars could be seen even in the early sixties.

40 and 50 foot cars where quite common, wood, steel, welded, rivited, smooth sided and outside braced. But most all would have steel ends and steel underframes. 

What you would not have seen was old 36' cars, cars with wooden ends or truss rod frames would have been all gone or rebuilt.

Plug doors, extra long or tall, or cushioned underframes with the couplers sticking way out are all stuff that didn't start untill the 60's.

No arch bar trucks (outlawed in the 30's) and no rollerbearing trucks (just starting in the late 50's)

You would have seen the beginning of the flashy paint schemes, B&O time savers, NYC Pacesetters, but most cars would be box car red (oxide).

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

I'm not sure of the roller bearing trucks, Sheldon.  The C&O had a special mark - a horizonal white line - on its new 1948 three bay steel hoppers.   The marking was to denote how special they were and it soon vanished as roller bearings became more common.   But I think you
re off by about ten years.   
But yes, 36 footers would be out, there would still be plenty of wood and there would be lots of steel cars.  And after 1943 there would be the composite hoppers and gons to save steel for the war effort.
While the boxcar heights were close - no hi cubes yet - there was a tremendous difference within a few feet of each other, and the same with door width, enough that there was a visual difference, 
Gene 

[Atlantic Central]

Gene,

Some roads started experimenting with roller bearing freight trucks in the early forties, but, they where the inclosed timken style like tender and passenger cars, not the kind we see on modern equipment. Those first showed up on covered hoppers and 75' piggybacks in '53, '54 but did not see use on boxcars until '57, '58.

Those early C&O hoppers had inclosed Timken bearing trucks, and that was really rare at that point. The poster asked about boxcars, and very few had roller bearings until the '60's.

That's why I buy the EB probucts roller bearing trucks, their right for my era.

Sheldon

[RAM]

No arch bar trucks in interchange service.  They could be found on MW cars.

[r.cprmier]

Sheldon;
I have to side with Gene on this one.  I lived next to the Fore River interchange spur in Braintree, Mass in 1954, and saw a lot of railcars with Timken@ Roller Bearings on; implying that they were in pretty much widespread use by then.

I bought some Greenway Buckeye trucks recently with roller bearings on them.  I have to use them on the Vanderbilt tenders on the Santa Fe rebuilts.;  I don't feel out of place as the Lima S-3 Berkshires included them on their tenders.
RIch

[GlennW]

In the 40's you may find plenty of USRA boxcars. Depending on your road, they may not have bought many during the Depression era of 1929-1939. With war approaching, many older cars were rebuilt. The "wood" cars most of us are talking about are the single or double sheathed ones. I'm not sure how long the wood carbody would last before needing to be replaced by a thrifty carshop.

Into the 50's more steel cars would be built. also, many of the "wood" cars would be rebuilt with steel sides. The PS1's may be the new caars, in both 40 & 50 ft lengths.

Your best guide will be the ORER's published by the NMRA. they fit into your time period perfectly. They will also give you names of the short lines in MI & IL & IN still in operation at the time. Then you may want to add a car or 2 from the AA, C&IM etc to your fleet of Class 1's GTW, PRR, NYC, IC, etc.

[Atlantic Central]

Rich and Gene,

I agree, and said, that Timken inclosed roller bearing trucks where in use starting about 1942 or so. They where in wide spread use on specific car types where the railroads where starting to push beyond the 50 ton range. specificly, 3 bay and 4 bay 40' hoppers, covered hoppers (mostly cement service), heavy duty flat cars, etc. But they where not common place on 40' and 50 ' box cars of that era. I'm sure a few rebuilds got them, and maybe even the newest production on some roads, but most 40' and 50' box cars had ASF 50 ton Ride Control or Bettendorf plain bearing designs until the very late 50's. Many of those ASF 50 ton trucks where on the rails until outlawed in 197?.

They would have also been seen under lots of tenders, a few cabooses, and express reefers and express box cars.

The more modern Symington or Hyatt style we see today did not appear until late in 1953 on the first 75' long piggy pack flats built by Beth Stell for the PRR and the Wabash.

Only a few correct HO models of these early roller bearing trucks have benn or are being made. I use the EB products ones on lots of my equipment, based on my research as outlined above. Most all of the roller bearing trucks on the market now and comming on RTR equipment are Hyatt or Symington types, not used until 1953 or so.

To back up my position, I refere you to Model Railroader, Dec 2003, pg 72, "Modeler's guide to freight car trucks - "Roller bearings trucks have been around since the turn of the 20th century and began to see common use in 1930s on passenger cars. Because of their additional cost, the trucks weren't widely used on freight equipment until the late 1950s and 1960s."

And, I'm sure I have more "facts" as apposed to anecdotal evidence if I dig out a few more books.

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

More info,

If Wikipedia is to be believed, Timken built a demo box car in 1943 to send around to the railroads, and it was displayed at the 1948 worlds fair.

That is right in line with what I have read elsewhere about Timken roller bearing frieght trucks first appearing in 1942.

In existance in the 40s. yes, common place, no. I did read the orginal post correctly, didn't I? He did ask about box  cars from 1940 to 1950?


From Timkens own web site - their AP bearing, equal to the symington and Hyatt types (triangular spinning cap with three bolts) was introduced in 1954.

Sheldon

[Atlantic Central]

Gene,

Here's a link to a great article about those C&O hoppers with roller bearings and the fact that even in 54-56, roller bearing use was just starting.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3943/is_200203/ai_n9047611


It even talks about them being more common on hoppers and flats and Timken using that as promotional info.

Also,

Roller bearings required on new cars - 1963

Friction bearings banned - 1994

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

Sheldon,
What you said was "...no roller bearing trucks."  That is a very general, broad statement. 
Gene

[Atlantic Central]

And,

The conversation was about box cars. yes they may have been a few, but as a basic modeling guideline for 1940-1950, "no roller bearing trucks" on 40' and 50' box cars is a reasonable statement.

Sheldon

[Swordsman422]

I think all of my questions have been answered. I didn't mean to start a fistfight, though. Sorry. Thanks to you all.