couplers

[jimbob261]

Being new to railroading I have a question for the experts. I have a lot of older engines and cars that need couplings replaced. Can you still buy the older style or do I need to upgrade to a newer style? What part # would I need for the older style and what suggestions to go to a newer style. The easier the better. Thanks for your time.

[Doneldon]

jb-

I don't know what you mean by "older" and "newer" style. I will guess that one is the so-called NMRA, horn-hook or X2f coupler which was standard equipment on models and in kits a couple of decades ago. These couplers didn't look at all like prototype couplers; actually, they always reminded me of a parasauropholus. By newer I'm guessing you mean knuckle couplers like those made by Kadee and several imitators. In truth, both types coexisted, with many modelers (and now virtually all), switching to Kadees.

I can't exactly answer your question even if my suppositions are correct because there are many, many different pieces of rolling stock and a whole slew of different ways to mount couplers. You didn't provide that information and it may not even be reasonable to do so if you have a large number of different cars from different manufacturers.

Regardless of whether my assumptions are correct (I suppose there's an outside chance, for example, that by "older" style couplers you meant the link-and-pin couplers used in the early days of railroading or perhaps the early Mantua model couplers), I strongly urge you to convert any of your rolling stock which is worth the effort and expense to Kadee couplers. Kadees are the best available and they come in a large number of configurations which allows them to be installed in almost everything. The Kadee web site has plenty of information about which product to use on what cars and locos. Start there.

You'll find that the quality of current models, both operationally and appearance-wise, is superior to what was available some years ago. Depending on just how old your trains are, you might decide that new couplers, and very possibly new wheels or trucks, aren't worth your time and money. You'll need to decide on a case by case basis.
                                                                                                                                                                                 -- D

[RAM]

Jimbob,  I am sure that you are talking about the horn-hook or x2f couplers.  My guess to your question is yes, but why would you want to.  All makes had different couplers.  It the cars and locomotives have body mounted couplers it is easy to replace Kadee couplers. (the best on the market) If you have truck mounted couplers it is a different story.  I think Kadee's web page is kadee.com, if not do a google search for Kadee.  Anyway they do make drop in couplers for just about any car.  The best bet is to body mount the couplers, but this take some work and time.  If you have a hobby shop near you that has been in business for  a number of years you might be able to by the horn-hook couplers.

[jbrock27]

jb, yes, the horn hook old style couplers can still be found for sale on a place like EBay, but I am in RAM's camp of "why would you want to?" as opposed to considering converting to newer knuckle style couplers, if cost and time to do so make sense for you.  I like Kadee's as well, but also use EZ Mate Mark IIs and McHenry's successfully.
Cost of new parts is involved when replacing talgo (truck mounted coupler) trucks and mounting couplers in draft boxes to the rolling stock.  As many have pointed out here, many times before, the cost of doing so should be weighed against the value of the car and what you end up with after expending the cost to "upgrade".  This is considered against simply buying a new piece of rolling stock that is outfitted with better trucks, wheels and couplers.  If some of these older cars you have are the Bachmann candy colored ones and the locomotives you have are pancake motored ones, I would pass on putting the $$ there.

-jb

[electrical whiz kid]

Doneldon;
You know, reading this site as long as I have, I have come to the conclusion that anyone who brings forth a submission as this one may very well have a wide  assortment of just about anything; from the old Bakers, Mantua, scale non-operating, Hobbyline, X2F, et al.  I would like to offer this as a default that suggestions be Kadee #5.  They are pretty common, and now relatively inexpensive.  As my preference, I like the 158s that kadee produces, but sticking with #5 s a default would be compatible with the others, such as McHenry, Bachman, etc; and be za lot less of a hassle for newer guys and girls in this hobby.  What are your thoughts to this?

Rich C.

[electrical whiz kid]

Addendum:  I hadn't intended this  to be an exclusive letter; anyone have any comments?

Rich C.

[Joe323]

My experience is that the old train set type cars are not worth the trouble of coverting if they have talgo trucks.  For those I replace the Horn hooks with Bachmann couplers (Not wanting to use expensive Kadees) and put then on the display shelf.

[jbrock27]

Rich, I also prefer the whisker type Kadees over the 5s bc that metal spring can be a pita.

Joe, if the rolling stock is not good enough to convert to run on the layout, what would make it good enough to have as a display and worth the while to replace the couplers, just to have as a display?

[Jeff A]

Hardly an expert, as I too am new to model railroading. When I got back into it, I also faced the coupler dilemma, and decided to go ahead and replace all of the horn-hook couplers with the prototypical knuckle couplers. The existing couplers on my inventory of locomotives and rolling had every conceivable mounting method, so a bit of patience and a lot of research was necessary. Some replacements are easy and some quite difficult, but I enjoyed the challenge of reengineering the various coupler mountings.

As others have mentioned Kadee is probably the best source of coupler conversion parts and information, but Bachmann (EZ Coupler) and McHenry (Athearn) also have knuckle coupler parts and information as well. Links to each of their websites are below. Note that the Kadee site has documented the conversion process (along with their coupler part number) for many, many old locomotives and rolling stock.

Yet another option that I considered was keeping a "hybrid" coupler arrangement. Replacing a horn-hook coupler on one end of a car created a "transition" car that could successfully connect both coupler types in a consist.

Others have suggested a good hobby shop as a source of information, and you may have success with that, assuming you are near a good shop. Those that I encountered had little knowledge of coupler replacement, and were more interested in selling me new locomotives and rolling stock, with which I was not interested.

Good luck and have fun with your "project."

Kadee:
http://www.kadee.com/conv/hocc.htm

Bachmann:
http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_91&products_id=5885

McHenry:
http://www.athearn.com/Search/Default.aspx?CatId=THCC

[electrical whiz kid]

Joe and Jbrock;
Yes, I do agree with the whisker type, they are a good strong reliable coupler to use-AND they are much closer to scale size then #5's.  However, #5s, especially for one on a limited budget (as in paper route, etc) and my wish [that] they remain enthusiastic about being in this hobby, would be my choice of default coupler. 
At this point in time, most of my kits would run from Don Tichy's line to Steve and Sharon Funaro's line of model kits; both obviously being of a different approach and (to me) level of enjoyment.  On this topic, I would encourage any newcomer with some "shake the box" type kits under their belts, to try one of Tichy's kits.  I personally think they will get a lot of satisfaction; as initially intimidating as they might look, they really aren't-and they pack a wallop of detail, if you are willing to use the directions-which are pretty well done-and take your time.

TRUCKS: 
Again, the default would be Kadee products, at least until you get your feet wet with this stuff.  Guys like myself will have accrued a lot of different types of wheel systems, most sitting in a drawer in some obscure corner of an obscure cabinet.  To me, stick with tried and true until you get comfortable here.  Don't forget; we ALL start out knowing next to nothing about the hobby.  Notice I didn't say "trains".  There is a reason.  And like "love", it is a learning process.

BUYING OLD STUFF:
Well, we all do it, and generally classify most as foibles.  OK, no big deal.  It is still a good thing to let yourself be happy.  Buy an old box car, gon, combine, etc.  You know what-this all becomes a part of the mix-the growing process.  I have a lot of refer cars, fr'instance , that I installed (in a moment if gross carelessness) and -until I noticed what I did-it was fun.

READ, READ, READ:
Forums, this one notwithstanding, are excellent places to pick up pointers, knowledge, etc. from the "Geritol set"   (If you don't know what "Geritol" is, God bless you-you have youth).  Books are also good, mags like MR, RMC, etc, are all good; and go to the shows!  Inspiration!!

Rich C. 

[ACY]

Most of my rolling stock has Kadee #148's installed, with the exception of those that already came with their own metal couplers such as my Walthers Gold Line rolling stock which has their own version similar to the Kadee #5.

[Doneldon]

Doneldon;
You know, reading this site as long as I have, I have come to the conclusion that anyone who brings forth a submission as this one may very well have a wide  assortment of just about anything; from the old Bakers, Mantua, scale non-operating, Hobbyline, X2F, et al.  I would like to offer this as a default that suggestions be Kadee #5.  They are pretty common, and now relatively inexpensive.  As my preference, I like the 158s that kadee produces, but sticking with #5 s a default would be compatible with the others, such as McHenry, Bachman, etc; and be za lot less of a hassle for newer guys and girls in this hobby.  What are your thoughts to this?
Rich C.

Whiz-

I don't know that I'd suggest Kadee #5s as the default recommendation for couplers but I would certainly go for Kadees of one variety or another. The reason I'd leave things broader is that #5s won't work on everything. They are fine if there is no body mounted draft gear but there often is. In such a case, it's generally easier to install a special Kadee coupler than remove the existing draft gear and replace everything. Cheaper, too. I have a pretty good supply of Kadees on hand so I can usually find the one I need for a new or replacement install.

I do have quite a number of older Athearn, Varney and MDC cars which I use because they aren't really noticeably deficient on a layout with all of the other cars and scenery around. Also, they all have Kadees and CV trucks which were installed back in the day. I recently completed updating all of my old equipment with Kadees and CVs but then they are primarily from Silver Streak, La Belle and Central Valley so they were worth the effort. I put Kadees and CVs on anything new that I buy. There actually weren't that many to work on because most of them got their Kadees and CVs at birth.
                                                                                                                                                                                  -- D

[jward]

the kadee 148 is the kadee 5 with whiskers instead of the centering plate.

most cars by athearn roundhouse or walthers are designed to use the kadee 5 so the 148s will work as well. no modification of the coupler pockets is necessary on these cars.

train set type cars by ahm, model power, lifelike, tyco or Bachmann (the ones with horn hook couplers) are going to require some surgery and in some cases creative thinking to convert to knuckle couplers. it can be done, it just depends on how much effort and frustration you are willing to expend. personally, unless the car is unique I don't bother with them as they have other issues as well with wheelsets and low weight. you can spend a lot of time and money trying to get them to run as well as the ready to run cars of to-day.