Berkshire

[tlnibert]

Does this engine smoke?

Can sound be installed in it.

Where would I buy a smoke or sound unit for it,

I have one, but the boss of the house doesn't know about it yet.

Tom the Wimp

[Doneldon]

Tom-

Keeping secrets about model trains doesn't qualify you as a wimp because this is frequently a necessary thing. For example, when you go to the general manager seeking right-of-way, she'll have a harder time saying no if she can't come right back at you with, "Well, you just spent a lot of money on that engine or whatever and now you want part of (my) house for your junk? I don't think so. And when are we going to be able to buy that new washer and dryer if you keep throwing all of our money away on your toys? And where would we put the laundry if you have the basement full of trains? Am I supposed to haul the wash out to the laundromat forever? And, speaking of the laundry, it wouldn't really hurt you to put your dirty clothes in the hamper, you know, and help with things around here once in a while. I can't do everything. You come home from work and put your feet up and expect me to wait on you hand and foot. But I come home from work and I have to start my second job -- cooking and cleaning and taking care of the kids. You could help with them once in a while, too. They're just as much your kids as mine but I have to do all of the work while you're just good time Charlie who's all fun and games but no where to be found if there's a dirty diaper to change or some discipline needed. Oh, no. I get stuck with all of that. So space for a train? No, I don't think so." It typically goes on from there. We all know the drill. So keep the Berk under wraps until it gets dusty and maybe even has a crack or a missing piece. Then, when she asks you where that came from, you can almost honestly say you don't remember because "It's been around here for a long time. You knew about it. Don't you remember?"

I don't think the Berkshire comes with smoke. You can add a smoker but I think you'll be very disappointed with the effect. The smoke is pretty thin unless you run the loco at all-ahead-flank-emergency. And the smoke fluid will leave an oily scum on your scenery, track and, especially, the top of your locomotive. The stuff attracts dust like mad. And you'll probably burn it out the first time you let it run after the smoke juice runs out. I suppose it's okay for occasional use if you have small children but that's about all. If you do decide to put a smoker in, buy one made by Seuthe for the best results. But check carefully if you can squeeze it in before you buy. Sometimes it's a really tight fit.

It should be pretty simple to add sound to your loco because I think the Berks already have DCC and holes for a speaker in the floor of the tender. You can add a sound only decoder programmed to the same address as the motion decoder. It will operate exactly the same as if everything were on one PCB. Or, you can replace the existing motion decoder with one which has both motion and sound in one package. In either case, you'll need to install a speaker. (They often come with the decoder but, if not, get the physically largest one you can shoehorn into the tender.) Installation should be pretty simple since there is already a place for it. Be sure to fully enclose the back of the speaker for the best sound. Some manufacturers have the speaker already wired to the decoder and mounted in a small enclosure. Depending on how handy you are, you can remove the small enclosure and construct a much larger one inside of the tender. A larger enclosure, like a larger speaker, will give better sound.

You can buy smoke units on-line or in a well-stocked LHS. The corner of a craft store with a handful of train sets won't have them. The same is true of the decoder. So many LHSs have disappeared in recent years that it seems most of us must use mail order. Do a search for "buy model trains" and you'll find lots of resources. You can also search for "model train sound" or "model train smoke." Whatever you do, consider identifying one source for the majority of your purchases. This should be a model train store, not a toy store or a generic hobby shop. It's as important to develop a relationship with an e-tailer as with a bricks and mortar shop. eBay can be a good source of model railroad items but don't look there for a smoker. And don't expect and help or advice. Other than track or rolling stock, eBay should be considered a resource for experienced modelers who need stuff only, no conversation or assistance.

Good luck with the Berkshire improvement program and in your negotiations with the GM. Let us know how things turn out.
                                                                                                                                                                              -- D

[tlnibert]

Thanks, I'll forget the smoke. I have sound in several G Scale engines and after running several hours, they get on your last nerve.
I traded an RC Heli for 16 HO train engines all Santa Fe. A couple friends are building a 5 by 10 layout. The plywood top is done and we're going to put Homosote on top of that.  Seems like a little over kill.
Running HO will be much easier on me that being outside when it's hot.  I think I should add, there's 5 inches of snow right now.
Thanks
Tom

[Doneldon]

Tom-

Homasote isn't overkill; it's a traditional material for model railroad trackbeds. That said, I'll suggest that you do not use it if it isn't already installed. It does change size significantly with humidity fluctuations which can be hard on your track. A two-inch sheet of pink or blue (not white) extruded foam insulation doesn't move around and is therefore a more stable material. And it's easy to use a thin coat of plastic-safe construction adhesive or caulk to glue your roadbed to the foam. Any left over from covering the 5x10 (about 14 sq. ft.) can be used to build up your terrain. The insulation board will permit you to dig into your surface so you can have features or details below track level. It's not as messy to work with as Homasote, either. The downsides are that it costs a little more than Homasote and it doesn't deaden sound the way Homasote does.

Good luck with your project, whichever way you go. And let us know about your progress.
                                                                                                                                      -- D

[rogertra]

Thanks, I'll forget the smoke. I have sound in several G Scale engines and after running several hours, they get on your last nerve.

Tom. 

You know you can turn the sound volume down, don't you?

There's really never a need, in my opinion, to have the sound volume up at full because, as you say, it gets really annoying after a while.

I have my HO fleet's (18 sound equipped to date) general volume turned down so the engine noise, both steam and diesel, is just loud enough to be heard from about four feet away.  I leave the horn/whistle and bell setting louder, I find this sounds much more realistic.

I have the tracks inside the roundhouse powered by toggle switches so that engines currently on the roundhouse tracks are silent.  I have the tracks on toggle switches so when I power up the railroad, the engine's sound systems inside the roundhouse do not automatically power up.

Cheers.

Roger.

[tlnibert]

I didn't know about sound.  I have never installed a sound card.
I have G Scale with sound, I guess I just never thought about it.
I have 3 main lines in front of my house. I almost never hear the engine because of noise from the wheels, with a toot thrown in once in awhile.
Tom

[electrical whiz kid]

Dr Don;
Some time back, there was an article in MR concerning a product called "micore".  I have looked into several of the suppliers I use for building materials and get the blank glazed look of a pole-axed steer.  Have you heard of it, and, if so, where have you found [it] available?  Also; I am planning [for the past year..] my new layout.  I have been looking into the idea of using two 1/2" sheets of AC plywood.  my thought is that I have not only the stability of a second set of plies, but also, if they go together back-to-back, a smooth, workable, stable undersurface for mounting equipment such as turnout linkage, wiring raceways, etc.  It would also be consistent when mating two runs of roadbed, in that you can lap the ends.  What are your thoughts?
Rich C. 

[Doneldon]

Rich-

I'm unfamiliar with the name "micore," but I'm guessing it's a plywood-like material with something other than wooden plies inside. Although products like OSB and chipboard aren't very good choices for model railroad layouts because they aren't always dimensionally stable through humidity changes, plywood with such insides are really pretty good products, if heavy ones. I build (well, I used to build) furniture and quality veneer over a manufactured core is an excellent way to go. Even high-end furniture uses veneer for large pieces like tabletops and case components. Solid wood frequently splits when used for such purposes, especially if it isn't allowed to float.

Doubled half-inch material would be extremely heavy and it introduces a human-made bond which is no where near as strong as a factory bond made with high, uniform pressure, heat and a commercial glue. You would be better off with one thicker piece than with two sheets put together at home. However, I think you are over-engineering your surface. An inch-thick slab would be about as stable as a bowling alley but you'll have to build an undercarriage to match. That means two-by lumber for legs and stringers. As strong as the "modern" one-by structures are, I would be afraid the weight of an inch-thick sheet would stress it too much if it is ever moved. Once you introduce that heavy tabletop and framing you seriously limit portability and increase your cost dramatically.

I suggest that you scale down your structure considerably. Keep in mind that house floors only use 5/8" sheets and roof sheets are 3/8" - 1/2" most places. I think you'll have plenty of strength and durability if you use the L-girder "modern" engineering for framing and legs, 1/4" - 3/8" sheets for your sub-surface, 1x3s laid on their sides to support the plywood or manufactured sheet from underneath and two-inch extruded foam insulation board as your top surface. That will be strong enough to climb on except your shoes will dent the foam. The cross braces laid on their sides will let you run wire without having to drill through the cross braces themselves although you will need to use screweyes, cable staples or such like to hold the wires. This will lower your cost significantly and give you the advantage of a final surface into which you can easily excavate below track level details. It's also easy to mount track, structures and scenery on the insulation. The comparatively thin wood base will give you an fully stable foundation for mechanicals and wiring while adding some support for the foam. Foam insulation is quite rigid in its own right so you can actually do without the wooden sheet all together if you have cross braces.

All of that presumes that you mount your surface to the edges of the one-by framing. If you drop the sheet materials into the frame (an overall structure about 49.5" by 97.5" surrounding the foam) you might want to go up to a half-inch sheet for the bottom of the layout, although 3/8" would be plenty strong. You can leave as much or as little space as you want, sinking the top just deep enough into the outer frame to provide protection for the foam, conceal the plywood edges and leave enough space underneath for wiring and mechanicals. With this structure, you can buy 8' one-by sticks for the long sides and 4' one-by sticks for the cross braces without having too cut anything (meaning no waste, perfectly even lengths and no funny angles on the ends of anything). Buy a 9' one-by for the ends and make just two cuts to get the 97.5" ends.

The only downside to this lighter frame and surface system is that you have to drill through the wood whenever you need to send wires for feeders or structures up to the top. Foam alone can be easily pierced with an ice pick or screwdriver. Oh, yes. The instructions for the L-girder construction often says to cut the framing pieces from plywood to save cost. That's an excellent idea if you have the tools and skills to do the long cuts evenly; I don't have bench tools so I buy sticks. I think the solid wood looks better when painted or finished and it's sufficiently stable in this usage.

Good luck with your construction. Please let us know how it's going.
                                                                                                       -- Doneldon

[electrical whiz kid]

Don;
My base is "book-cases", I built specifically as a structure upon which to put the 1X4 "L" girder.  THis should hold up Babaar as well as his family.  I did this more because I needed facility to store older mags, stuff I should have tossed ten years ago but-well, you know the rest.  I had tossed around the idea of back to back 1/2" but wanted to get some feedback.  Thank you.  I had heard of Micore being mentioned just once in that article; but whoever wrote it seemed to swear by it.   Sure has my curiosity up.
My last layout had a type of sawhorse I built just for the occasion.  These bad animals were 48" high, and the grid-work once secured upon it was as sound as a ship.  The one drawback:  Took up a lot of floor space.  I will give some thought about using alternative methods and materials, partially because homasote isn't my favourite  material in the world to work with.  The gridwork you can build using precut interlocking plywood pieces is pretty interesting.

Rich C.   
   

[ebtnut]

Google is your friend:  http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG/United%20States/Product%20Related/Mineral%20Fiber%20Panels/Micore%20300%20Mineral%20Fiber%20Board/documents/language/english/Product%20Literature/micore-mineral-fiber-board-300-submittal-en-IW803.pdf

Since this is a USG product, you should be able to locate a sample at a big home improvement store or lumberyard.

[electrical whiz kid]

EB;
Than k you so much for the information.  I had gone into the local lumber yard and asked around about it, and got some pretty strange looks.  My guess is that it wouldn't be used all that much by builders unless the application was either code specific, or specified by spec sheet on a print.  It is an interesting material, though.  Thanks again.
Rich C.