30 degree crossing problem

[jcs44]

Hello everyone - newbie here.

I'm putting together a very basic layout for my grandson ( and myself.  I recently bought a 30 degree crossing for the layout and having problems with derailing almost everytime the engine starts across it.  Sometimes it just stops cold.  Anyone else have problems with these things?  I do have curve sections feeding the crossing.

Thanks, John

[jbrock27]

Do you have the ability to check the gauge of the wheels on the loco?  Do all locos (if you have more than 1) do the same thing?  And if so, all in the same spot?

[jcs44]

I only have the one engine, GP35, I think.  Seems to always hang up in same spot.  Perhaps there's a plastic burr on the crossing, because sometimes it just stops cold.  Also, since I have curves joining the crossing, maybe the engine trucks aren't totally straight when they reach the crossing (?).

Thanks for the input!

[jbrock27]

You're more than welcome.

W/o a NMRA gauge, it will be tough to measure the wheels for being in or out of gauge.  If you turn it over, and look at the wheels, do you see any noticeable differences between them?  Have you run the loco as slow as possible toward the trouble spot and watched up as close as you can to see exactly what happens when the loco goes over the trouble spot?

[ebtnut]

Check to see if one of the loco's coupler pins is hanging down below the railhead. If so, it can snag on the crossing.

[Joe Satnik]

Dear John,

I assume you have tried to make a Figure-8 using 22 ea. 18"R Curves and the crossing.   

Unfortunately, the 30 Degree Crossing and the 18" Radius Curves together

are not geometrically perfect for that job. 

Try temporarily removing the lower left and upper right curves next to the crossing.   

This should leave you with a Figure "S" (as in "Snake")

It helps, of course, if one of the track pieces you remove

isn't the 18"R Curved Terminal Re-railer, which is how your layout gets its power. 

Push the remaining track pieces tightly together and try running your loco over the

crossing and let us know if that fixes the problem.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik     

[jbrock27]

The Atlas HO Layouts For Every Space book that I have, has a diagram of a figure 8 using 18" radius curves and a 30 Degree Crossing.  It shows 22, 18" radius curves (11 + 11) being used for the loops, but, it also shows 4,  2.5"  straight pieces, being used on each of the 4 "legs" of the crossing.

[Doneldon]

John-

A figure-eight layout with 18" radius curves and a 30^o crossing has some liabilities. For one, the 18" curves are pretty tight. They'll confine you to shorter equipment and they won't look very realistic. You'll also have just the bare minimum straight sections between what would otherwise be S-curves. That, too, will limit your equipment choices. This setup will also force you to use only switches, not better tracking numbered turnouts.

Depending on your space, a figure eight with 45^o or 90^o crossings will permit broader curves, give you longer transitions between the curves and let you use numbered turnouts. You'll find it much easier to add spurs or sidings, and you'll be able to access the middles of holes in the basic mainline. There won't be a lot of space in there but it would be adequate for industrial sites, an engine terminal with a roundhouse or perhaps a mine. Use steep grades, very tight curves and maybe a switchback or two and you could have a dandy mine served by a geared loco.

Also, stretching your figure eight with turnouts at the fattest parts of the two loops will let you easily run trains and reverse their directions. That can be a bit tricky to wire, at least in DC, but it can bump up the interest factor a lot.
                                                                                                                                     -- D

[jcs44]

Wow!  I want to really thank everyone for all the input/suggestions.  My plan was to use the 30 deg crossing to create the longest run I could on a 4 x 6 layout for my grandson (and me), so there's a lot of curves.  I'm trying to create a large outside loop and use the crossing for an inside loop as large as possible, so it's not a true figure 8.  From what you've all replied, I think I probably do have a geometry problem with the alignment of the curves to the crossing, so I'll play with that.  It also sounds like I need at least a short straight on all sides of the crossing and I gotta get down there with my magnifiers to see whats going on (old eyes).

Many thanks,
John

[jbrock27]

You're welcome and good luck.
To quote Doc, please keep us informed of your progress.

[Joe Satnik]

Dear John,

Track Planning Guru (RIP) John Armstrong in

"Track Planning for Realistic Operation 3rd Ed." c1998 pg. 101 wrote:

"Rearrange the Figure-8 by flopping one of its loops over inside the other and

expanding it to about the same size, and you have the 'Twice Around' oval with (level)

grade crossing, or overpass (bridge), as you prefer." 

Parenthesis added for clarification. 

Try building your grade crossing Twice Around on AnyRail.com track layout CAD program. 

It is fun, easy to learn, and a free download for the first 50 track pieces. 

You can iron out the kinks in the design before you buy more track.

Twice around example:



Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik 

[jbrock27]

I've always been curious, but never asked before; what does the cost look like, once you get over 50 pieces?

[Jerrys HO]

Jim

When I bought the full version it was fifty something dollars. To me well worth it.

[jbrock27]

Thank you for answering my question Jerry.  Does that pay for lifetime usage?  A year? Just that time you are using the program?

Thank you.

-Jim

[Jerrys HO]

Lifetime and even includes upgrades for free. After I purchased mine a lot of addons were being done and they automatically notify you upon start up to download or dismiss it if you wish. Some I dismissed because it did not pertain to my interests.
I now think I should have just to have it. I only did it to one or two though.