Alco S2 sound improvement simple

[J3a-614]

J3a-

Wow! That's one smoky Alco. I can't help but wonder if it has a leaky head gasket.
Did the smoke stay white after it was underway?
                                                                             -- D

From what I've been told, most of what you're seeing in this clip is because the engine is cold.  What happens is that when you start the unit, or in some cases attempt to start it, the injectors spray fuel into the engine, but the fuel is only vaporized; it doesn't ignite.  This results in the white "smoke," which British enthusiasts have called "clag."  As the engine is cranked over, the compressed air gradually starts to warm up, and eventually you get the engine to start.  It will still smoke like anything until it gets warm enough, but it's running, and will be fully warm in 20 minutes or so. . .at least, that's what I've been told, and that to warm up a steam engine actually takes hours (even though all you need is a dry match :-) )!

More clips on hard-starting diesel locomotives, mostly from our British counterparts.  Note that many of these engines are "hunting" (engine speed goes up and down); this is because the lube oil is also cold, and it's also what's used to control the engine's governor, so the stiff oil makes the governor slow to react to engine speed changes. . .another fun thing to deal with on a cold diesel locomotive. . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG91fYHcm-k

Some cylinders fire, some don't, the engine is cold, cold, cold. . .glow plugs would help, but they don't have them. . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_cGG56QA4

Cold, smoky start, and a steam engine adds to the atmosphere, but note how clean it's finally running at the end when it gets warm.  Until then, it's even hard on the photographer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JpQivta6MQ

This sort of thing isn't limited to first generation locomotives, although I do wonder if these fellows still have their jobs on Norfolk Southern:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOj6gPwkiXg

Everything we've been looking at so far are 4-cycle engines.  EMDs are two-cycles, and they seem to start easier.  These happen to be export locos, but they are fun to watch and hear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmi_-tRTfbc

Turbocharged 645 (this is what's in an SD-40-2):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmY2HPnOlWY

EMD 710:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpXBoYcQH6k

Nice, easy start with a 567 in an F9:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_h9MpfQ_6I

FM in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPLH5JwqGxg

FM start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPRp2ism_Ww

Baldwin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAf8wZI9eFs

Alcos again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXx9Y2zcSKw

That should be enough for now. . .unless someone can get GE 44 and 70 ton units. . .

[J3a-614]

Did find a 70-tonner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1NnnmnwRxo

[rogertra]

Alco prime movers will smoke like mad even when they are hot, not just on start up.  Even GE or EMD units can smoke on start up.

The the two reasons Alcos smoke are: -

1)  If they've been idling a while, there's a build up of carbon.  What I liked to do and photographers loved, is come back from lunch, after the unit had been idling for an hour or more, leave the brakes on and open the throttle.  This provided black clouds of smoke as the unit slowly pulled away.  Yes, any diesel unit can over come it's brakes, even with a full brake application this, combined with turbo lag, produced copious amounts of smoke.

2)  Turbo lag.  Alcos were notorious for turbo lag.  Alcos had a pure turbo whereby when you open the throttle the injectors dump more fuel into the cylinders and the RPMs increase with the engine burning very rich, until the rpms kick the turbo up to where the boost gives enough air to even out the ratio. This all happens fairly quickly, but until that turbo catches up and the engine is burning rich it will smoke.

Cheers.

Roger.

[ALCO1000]

Hello People,
EXPERIMENTED WITH THE SOUND A FEW DIFFERENT WAYS  FOUND A Little tip to Improve the ALCO s2 sound that we found very good, but lacking the low end diesel sound that the ALCO diesel has,
The sound is there but needed help getting out,

The procedure requires removing the shell and with a drill bit carefully ream out the hole at the top of the speaker enclosure to 1/4 inch by hand ONLY!!!!!!!,Make sure to tape the front headlight wires to protect them from the bit scraping them with a small piece of masking tape.
Next find a piece of cardboard from a serial box ,that thickness and cut a piece to fit in the rectangular section in the shell the radiator section,
Use your point of the scissors to make a 1/8 inch hole in the middle of the cardboard piece you cut out DOESENOT HAVE TO BE A CLEAN HOLE OR PERFECT JUST A HOLE and insert it in the section in the shell ,
No glue or tape just cut it to fit tight in the shells rectangular section above the speaker box, MIGHT TAKE A FEW TRIES TO GET IT RIGHT,! Reinstall the shell and enjoy!You will hear the rattling of the diesel like you never did before especially at the second notch,Have fun !
Jack

[Thommo]

Hello all!

I have an PRR Alco S4 with sound (it is marketed as S2, but the number #8432 and long hood are from PRR S4 engine). But, sadly, the truck is Alco "Blunt", as the S2 had.

I have two questions:

1. How to remove the darn plastick truck covers from the truck bottom?? I can see the one wire on front truck is disconnected, so the sound is sporradic. I need to remove the plastic cover to get to the wire and solder it back to the truck.

2. Can I order ARR type truck covers from Bachmann, to switch them on my S4 an make it little more correct? If somebody have link or email, I'd be very greatfull.

Thanks!

[Thommo]

This is the trucks I need to dissassemble to re-solder it:

[ALCO1000]

Old diesels smoke ALCOs BIG POWER 4 STROKE smoke good!It would be nice to have a smoke unit in a ho scale Diesel that could throw out a cloud without contaminating things I was thinking about the innards of those new electric cigarettes ITS ACtually advertised as a vapor,use somthing like that with some type of fan and ?Put it in a dummy diesel more room !
Jack

[bapguy]

Look at the front and back of the truck. The truck side frames and front and rear connecting parts are all one unit. Put a small flat bladed screw driver on the front of the truck and pull the top of the screw driver towards you and down. This should cause the side frame to pop loose.  Joe

[DAVE2744]

Jack Alco1000, just finished your modification for the sound on the Alco S2.  Worked great.  Definitely enhanced the lower pitched sounds.  I personally think the turbo is too strong, but other than changing the sound board I guess I'll live with it.  I am guessing that blocking most of the shell and opening up the sound box, allows for a larger "echo" chamber.  Anyway, thank you for sharing your experiment. Dave

[ALCO1000]

Jack Alco1000, just finished your modification for the sound on the Alco S2.  Worked great.  Definitely enhanced the lower pitched sounds.  I personally think the turbo is too strong, but other than changing the sound board I guess I'll live with it.  I am guessing that blocking most of the shell and opening up the sound box, allows for a larger "echo" chamber.  Anyway, thank you for sharing your experiment. Dave

Dave ,
Great now to fiddle with my s2,They have a enlarged speaker box chamber in that ,seems like they are trying to get the most out of it ,Really surprised me that they make that kind of a running change basically same mechanism under the hood,they even changed the circuit board to compensate for that change,Thumbs up for Bachmanns efforts to improve a product that really is not on the high dollar end of there product offerings,They must of hired some TRUE MODEL RAILROADERS to develop engineer these little switchers that actually care and have the talent to match,Hopefully they can match the detail and quality of there steam offerings with there Diesel offerings,THIS is a great step forward for them!
Jack

[West Bound]

 To Alco 1000,  Jack, I just completed my modification based on your "sound idea". There is a noticeable improvement to the sound output. Thanks for for the tip.  While I had this apart, I added an engineer and brakeman in the cab. - John

[blf]

Well guys ,I mentioned this fix some time ago, but it didn't receive the response I expected. The hole enlargement brings the sound level up, but doesn't give the bass tones. After comparing the addition of a TSU 1000 in a RS3 I put sound into, I  replaced the whole system with a TSU 750 and a small oval speaker like the one I used in the RS3. The small oval from Tony,s fits with a little sanding on the sides of the enclosure. The tricky part is to find room for the capacitor . I cantilevered it off the brass mounting strip I used for a heat sink. It sits just in front of the rear light bracket and drops to just clear the top of the gear tower. Cut out the top of the shell for a little clearance which you can not see. Fairly difficult , but well worth the effort. The oval speaker is about four to five times larger than the small round one used. Plenty of room for the modification with no machining required and have a full range decoder. Hope I can find a project for the removed decoder. This engine is a fantastic performer and deserves the largest speaker that will fit. Man does it sound good! Bill

[bapguy]

 These are the CV settings I use for the equalizer in the  full version TSU. It helps with small speakers.   Joe
153=7

154=200

155=200

157=175

158=150

159=225

160=255

  I got these off the ModelRailroder forum. They were posted by Erik Fiske.

[ALCO1000]

Well guys ,I mentioned this fix some time ago, but it didn't receive the response I expected. The hole enlargement brings the sound level up, but doesn't give the bass tones. After comparing the addition of a TSU 1000 in a RS3 I put sound into, I  replaced the whole system with a TSU 750 and a small oval speaker like the one I used in the RS3. The small oval from Tony,s fits with a little sanding on the sides of the enclosure. The tricky part is to find room for the capacitor . I cantilevered it off the brass mounting strip I used for a heat sink. It sits just in front of the rear light bracket and drops to just clear the top of the gear tower. Cut out the top of the shell for a little clearance which you can not see. Fairly difficult , but well worth the effort. The oval speaker is about four to five times larger than the small round one used. Plenty of room for the modification with no machining required and have a full range decoder. Hope I can find a project for the removed decoder. This engine is a fantastic performer and deserves the largest speaker that will fit. Man does it sound good! Bill

I did the baffle adjustment on 2 of them running together at no dollar spent and man great sound together doing a little branch line service on the layout,also found a way to add some weight to it without hacking anything up clean pro job,4 oz each, with that said these  will give other makers a run for there money,seen your old thread , but used that as a base to start with the trial and error thingy that improved upon I believe,but thanks for the inspiration ,
Jack

[blf]

Thanks bapguy for the CV values. Called Soundtraxx some time ago with some low sound issues with some of the decoders I was installing and received the info from them on the CV's except for 154, but no values. Was wondering when we could get a site up to play around with the value issues others have found to sound good. Still haven't tackled my EM-1 yet to get the correct Baldwin whistle in it as the S2 was the first install, out of 81 projects, that had lights. Now the fear is gone. Bill