Slippery Drivers

[woliners]

When I add more than 5 cars behind my 2-6-2, it slips and just sits there spinning or barely moves.  My track is level and a straight edge shows no dips or "wows." The cars are not excessively heavy and all the wheels spin freely.  I am very careful with lubricants on wheel bearings and motor/gear stuff.  I don't use liquid smoke on any of my locos.  I only clean the track with the erasure thingy.  I usually clean the drivers with track cleaner but I always try to wipe them dry (frantically!!!).  I've experimented with wheel spacing and I get nothing.  Are these things really that limited in pulling capacity, or is there something I'm missing? What do ya got for me?

later

[richg]

You have reached the limit of your loco.

Rich

[jbrock27]

Woli, what brand loco?

[bobwrgt]

You need to get a bigger engine or you can try this.
WARNING   WARNING Only do one of these things at a time then run the train for a test. If it works OK then go to the next step. If it developes a problem put it back to the way it was.

See if the connection bar between the engine and tender is lifting any weight off the rear of the engine. If it is you will have to adjust it so it does not take any weight off to engine wheels.

With the engine on the track lift just the 2-XX-2 wheels to see how much weight is on them. They are not providing any traction If you can adjust for less weight it will add more weight to the drive wheels. Make sure they are also turning free.

If you don't have any switches used in your track and it is level and smooth you can take 1/2 the weight out of the inside of each car and the coal tender. Most cars and tenders are overweight.

I have an 0-6-0 Casey Jones that will pull 11 passenger cars all day long.

[woliners]

Thanks to all for the replies.  The loco that gives me the most trouble is the Bachmann 2-6-2.  I'll give all the suggestions a try....and if no luck, I'll just run shorter trains and live with it.  I do have bigger locos: 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 that are more robust but I like to give them a rest once in a while. 

[K487]

Well, no one's mentioned it, but there's always Bull Frog Snot.  I don't use it but from what I read it helps a lot.

K487

[Doneldon]

woli-

Your B'mann Prairie is never going to be a beast but I think you can best improve its pulling power by adding weight to it. I suggest that you add weight anywhere you can fit some in without interfering with the loco's mechanism. I wouldn't be surprised if you can add 50% or more to your loco's pulling power. I am not a fan of taking weight off of locomotive trucks. It's too likely that you can end up with tracking problems which are more of a nuisance than a loco's power. Also, I haven't found that running cars underweight is a good idea as that can lead to derailments, too.
                                                                                                                                                                                                    -- D

[woliners]

Is there some underlying reason that some loco's have moved away from using rubber band-type traction drivers?  Even my little Bachmann 4-4-0 (with rebber traction) can pull quite a bit more than the 2-6-2 Prairie.  Ultimately, even my heavier (2-8-2) loco slips a bit....not as bad.  Having said that, I am in the process of lighting the weight on my rolling stock.  We'll see well that works.

later

[jward]

yes, there is a reason most reputable manufacturers have moved away from traction tires. wheelsets are made to finer tolerances these days, and traction tires are notorious for being out of round, a loco with tires will often hop down the tracks, and bounce itself off the rails under heavy load. any locomotive worth buying will not have tires.

[bobwrgt]

Adding weight to the engine can be done, but why add extra strain on the engine , power pack and motor if you don't need to. It will also add strain to the running gear (side rods and internal gears).
If you can reduce weight in the cars  and have no problems operating why not? You can always put it back in.
On some older engines when they added rubber tires they did not do it very well. The engines would wobble down the track. Some say the track gets dirty faster from the rubber also. On engines with few wheels the rubber tires took away from the wheels to pick-up current.
If you add bullfrog snot or rubber tires to your engine you may have to add extra electrical pick-up to your tender for better running.
For over 30 years almost all European engines (Hornby, Roco, Liliput, Rivarossi) have had rubber tires.
Broadway Limited USA uses traction tires as well as Bachmann on N scale steam and Proto (Walthers) steam. They are some of the best running engines still today and well worth buying.

[rogertra]

Adding weight is a standard practice and places no extra strain on the motor providing that under full power and in a stall position, the driving wheels can still spin.  This is another reason traction tires should be avoided as your locomotive driving wheels cannot slip under a full load stall and you will end up burning out the motor. Adding weight does not add any strain on the power-pack, it simple puts out it's maximum voltage and amperage no matter what the locomotive is doing.

I question the comment about all European models having traction tires.  Some? Yes.  All?  No!

Broadway Limited offers a set of drivers without traction tires so they can be removed.

Removing weight from freight and passengers is also not a good idea.  Most passenger and freight car models actually need weight added to bring them up to the recommended NMRA weights so as to make them track better.

[bobwrgt]

I have been running trains and RC boats, cars, trucks, aeroplanes, and helicopters for 40 years. Adding weight causes the motor to run hotter and wear out sooner. It can also cause gears to strip out under load. Everything has it's limit, so why always run at that limit when you don't need to. Would you add weight in the trunk of your car for winter and drive around with it all year long?
Send an engine in for repair under warranty with weight added and see if it is covered.
It's my railroad and all I know is what has worked best for me.

[Steve Magee]

How come nobody has mentioned the obvious solution - buy another one and double head! As if an excuse is needed to buy another loco!

Steve Magee
Newcastle NSW Aust

[rogertra]

bobwrgt

Well Bob, I guess we have to agree to disagree.

Many modelling articles in the major magazines over the years have suggested adding weight to locomotive, both steam and diesels.  There have been many articles giving guidelines on how and where to add weight.

I add weight to all my steam and also remove any springs pushing down on trucks, all to improve pulling power.  Just removing those truck springs will add two or three cars to a train.  I carefully add weight my locomotives so that the weight is balanced in the centre of the driving wheels.  Not nose nor cab heavy but nicely balanced.  The trick to not burning out motors and stripping gears is to make sure that even with the added weight, the driving wheels can still spin when the train stalls.  That protects your gears and motor.

I've been a model railroader, like you, for in excess of 40 years and I've never replaced a motor nor ever changed gears, except those well know models that suffered from "Split Gear Syndrome" a few years ago.  Besides, I'm a model railroader and I never ever send anything back under warranty.  I always fix things myself.  


But, like I said above, we will have to agree to disagree.

[Doneldon]

I add weight to all my steam and also remove any springs pushing down on trucks, all to improve pulling power.  Just removing those truck springs will add two or three cars to a train.  I carefully add weight my locomotives so that the weight is balanced in the centre of the driving wheels.  Not nose nor cab heavy but nicely balanced.  

Roger-

Do you ever have problems keeping leading and trailing trucks on the rails when you pull their springs? I have. But now I put a little weight on the accessory truck if I remove a spring. This has the effect of keeping the truck on the rails while maximizing the weight on the driven wheels and adding only infinitesimally to the load on the engine. A couple of BBs on a pony truck won't have a measurable effect on pulling capacity but they will allow the loco to deploy its entire mass towards tractive effort.
                                                                                                                                                                                        -- D