Need some help on a brass project

[jonathan]

I am up to 21 Bachmann locos... quite a stable.  It was time for a break to work on a brass project.

I have a Westside Q-4b.  It came with jewels in the headlight and reverse light.  The previous owner bought the loco with jewels in place, so he didn't know how they were glued in.  I am trying to figure out how to remove them without damaging the lamps:





I know some of you have some brass experience and may have some ideas.

I am thinking of drilling a hole through the jewels and injecting some paint thinner to see if things loosen up.  The other thought is to use a low heat (15 watts) soldering iron to melt them out.  However, I don't yet know if the jewels are glass or plastic.  I would greatly appreciate some input on what I might try.

I have been building some 0603 SMD LEDs.  Very tiny.  I'm having about a 75% success rate at the tiny soldering:





These are what I want to use for lighting... perhaps even a cab light and some firebox glow.

The other parts of the project (motor, gearbox, paint) I got a handle on.

Thanks again!

Regards,

Jonathan

[jward]

be very careful if you try to melt those lamps out. you might unsolder other things on the locomotive. you could try drilling them out with a pin vise. if they are glued in, putting a drop of acetone in the drilled out holes might loosen the glue.

[jonathan]

Thanks, Jeffery.

Indeed, I was thinking of the pin vice option as the safest thing to try first, gradually increasing the size of the hole, until I could drop in some sort of evil chemical to release the jewels. If the jewels are glass, I don't know how effective the bits will be, but it sounds like a good place to start.

Will let you know what happens.

Regards,

Jonathan

[ALCO1000]

TRY SOME FREEZE SPAY AND A HAIR DRIER/ HEAT GUN , HOT AND COLD CONCEPT WILL EXPAND THINGS DIFFERENTLY , GET LOOSE , PROTECT OTHER AREAS WITH TIN FOIL, TAKING CARE NOT  TOO MUCH HEAT! TO MELT THINGS,HOPE THIS HELPS.JACK

[Jerrys HO]

Jonathan,

The only thing I could think of is to take your soldering iron (I usually keep some old pencil types around for uses not pertaining to soldering) and stick the tip into the middle of the jewel and if it's plastic it will melt and possibly have enough heat on the jewel to loosen it. If it's glass the heat may transfer through to the sealant enough to loosen it.

Hope it works
Jerry

[Doneldon]

Jonathan-

The marker jewels I have encountered have all been glass. There may be some plastic ones around but I haven't come across any. It should be easy to determine the material; just see if you can scratch the jewel with a hobby knife.

Assuming your jewels are glass, keep in mind that metal reacts more to temperature changes than does glass. I'd try spraying some canned air on the markers' backs to chill them and then the soldering iron to heat the marker from behind. Hopefully, that'll crack the glue bond.

This may turn out to be a cannot do project. If so, you might have to unsolder the markers and replace them with new ones.
                                                                                                                                                                                             -- D

[jonathan]

Doneldon,

The head/reverse light jewels are indeed glass.  I tried drilling into them.  That will take weeks and lots of bits.  I agree I may have to replace the brass parts! but I will try a few other things prior to giving up.  I know those jewels want to let go.  Just a matter of applying the right physics. 

BTW this loco ran about 5 feet before the 36-year-old rubber connector crumbled to dust. The motor is very small as well. Many things to fix.  Oh, the joy...

Regards,

Jonathan

[Woody Elmore]

Hi Jonathan - is your Q-4b one of the ones that come in the Westside red, white, blue bicentennial box? I had one, and it had the neat B&O water bottle auxillary tender included. They were not the best brass models. The guy who owned Westside underwent a divorce and his cashflow was severely impacted so he was having his models done by a new Korean company.

From the start cold soldered joints fell off. The Tender frames didn't allow the trucks to swing and, yes, it had a teensie little can motor. I sold mine at a Timonium show. It required too much work. Earlier runs (red box) were much better than the 1976 batch.

You may have to remove the marker lamps and give them an acetone bath. You'd mess up the nice paint! I'm sure you'll come up with a solution.

[jonathan]

Woody,

Yep, this is the 76 version. I've already fixed the binds, tweaked the gearbox and ordered a larger motor. The tender frame has already been replaced. Surprisingly, it will run down to 22" radius curves.

Oh, it has a better bell now. I will run a pull cord at some point.

Not worried about wrecking the paint... I can paint, um, we'll enough for my layout. 

Gonna be a lengthy project.  Thanks!

Regards,

Jonathan

[jonathan]

Success!  Thanks to all to provided some great advice.  I used a little bit of every piece of knowledge.

I applied heat to the edge of the headlight with a 15 watt soldering iron, while at the same time, grasping the jewel with the edges of my track cutter.  I was able to pop it off after a few seconds:







Just a little cleaning up required before I start drilling for lights.  The reverse light worked, too, using the same process, with no damage.  Whew!

At the same time, I'm replacing the motor.  This will require a little grinding in the shell. Here's a couple of shots while I construct a new motor mount from the leftover scrap brass:





Thanks again, my friends,

Regards,

Jonathan

[Woody Elmore]

Regarding the tender frame - Westside later offered a free under frame that was narrower than the stock model.

There once was a guy who worked out of his garage selling HO brass parts. He called himself Trackside Specialties. He purchased all the Westside parts inventory. I remember visiting his booth once at the Timonium show. He had dozens of pairs of assembled valve gear for various Westside models. If you liked to tinker with brass models, going to his booth you could find trucks, drivers, frame springs and assembled valve gear - that sort of thing. He also had O scale parts plus he sold things he's find when hobby shops went out of business. I haven't seen him in Timonium for years and I often wonder what happened to his inventory.

Jon, I knew you would find a way of removing the jewels. I remember that the bell on my engine was loose and not too well detailed. Good luck with your upgrade. Keep us posted.

[Woody Elmore]

Jon - Following up on my last post I googled Trackside Specialties - and came up with a company called Greenway - they have all sorts of nifty little parts. Have you you ever heard of them?

[jonathan]

Indeed!

I have purchased many parts from Greenway... especially when modifying my Bachmann locos.  The owner has some serious health issues.  He's hoping to be well enough to start shipping parts again in the Spring.  This may be another company that is not long for this world.

The improved tender frame came from these folks. I always visit the Greenway booth, getting ideas for projects.

Regards,

Jonathan

[Woody Elmore]

If the owner of Greenway is the same man that ran Trackside Specialties he would be really up in years. A business like his is more of a hobby because you can't get rich selling little packets of 2 mm screws or assembled valvegear made for one specific engine.

Good luck with the Q4b it has always been one of my favorite locos.

[jonathan]

Thanks, Woody,

Like the Consolidation, the Mike was one of those do-it-all locomotives.  Had to have one, and this brass one was the best bargain going at the moment... mostly due to all the work involved to get it running right.

Once the over-sized motor is mounted more permanently--I finally got it squeezed into the limited space--I think I'll have a good work horse to compliment all the Connies that move through the layout.

Regards,

Jonathan