The right loco

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

Soon, Im going to pick up my first On30 loco to supplement my O gauge lines. Although, Im not a rivet counter, and will use ho road bed track I have had for a while, but the more the engine stands out as narrow gauge, the happier I will be, so I plan to go small, or low... Unless, I can fact find, before I make my final decision. I plan to check up more on a specific Michigan railroad logger, Con Culhane and the Ellen K(1890s to 1903-RIP). If I can find out what style of locomotive the Ellen K. was, well that's my choice. Do you know, or even have a hunch as to what you think he used in the sandy swamps of Michigan's Upper Peninsula during the turn of the century?. I know only it was delivered by boat, no year, not even a port name. My big qu237estions(sorry the dog wanted to type) overall are for those who own some to compare.
What do you consider to be the most reliable of the smaller On30 engines by Bachmann?
Easiest to maintain or repair?
Best pullers, modified or stock, porter or forney? Climax or Shay? etc.
Best on very poorly laid track? (look Con up)
Sits lower........ etc. etc.
Lets say no bigger than the two truck shay, or climax as it will see time right next to semi-scale O-27 too. Steam first!, no diesel, or juice....Yet. (Im listening for buying in the future). Conventional control, no sounds preferred.   

[lvrr325]

Forney will pull like a beast but it does not like tight curves or sloppy ups and downs because of the length. 

The small 4-4-0 I've had some issues with lead truck popping off, although some other things have given problems in the same place (an old AHM/Lima curved switch). 

A logging road would likely have had a Climax, Shay, or other geared locomotive, although when the Catskill Mountain Railroad quit, some of it's 4-4-0s went to logging roads - they got fitted with a planetary gear adapter on the drive wheels, though, to allow slower speed operation. 

[Stevelewis]

Try  a  Climax  good  solid  loco,  very  heavy  good  pulling  power  plenty of  movement in the   bogies (trucks)!  so  they  are  happy on uneven  trackwork,  and  they  sound  good  if  you  get  a  sound   version.

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

Forney will pull like a beast but it does not like tight curves or sloppy ups and downs because of the length. 

A logging road would likely have had a Climax, Shay, or other geared locomotive, although when the Catskill Mountain Railroad quit, some of it's 4-4-0s went to logging roads - they got fitted with a planetary gear adapter on the drive wheels, though, to allow slower speed operation. 

Try  a  Climax  good  solid  loco,  very  heavy  good  pulling  power  plenty of  movement in the   bogies (trucks)!  so  they  are  happy on uneven  trackwork,  and  they  sound  good  if  you  get  a  sound   version.

Thanks for the input. I figured as much on the Forney but thanks for the confirmation. The lower Pen. of Mich was loaded with Shays, and better records. Finding pictures, or mechanical reference is tougher for the UPofMI, everyone moved.
Most of what Ive seen used are indeed Baldwin Americans, but the deep woods are sandy swamps. I know its possible, but Id have to think that good track was always a big issue and the closest thing to a light weight billy goat the better.

I wonder how the Porter compares to the Forney as a puller? I assume it has less track issues.

The Climax is actually my preference looks wise for a "bigger" unit, but Shays were soooo common here. With gear fun in both, I guess Im asking, How is it in a tight bend?


Thank you again for your posts.

[Catt]

To my way of thinking logging in Michigan means Shays.They were invented here and their main use was logging here at least in the LP.

I am however not familiad with logging in the UP so they may have used different locos.Even though I am a modern modeler I will admit to liking the geared locos.

[ebtnut]

I would think that the Bachmann Shay would fit right in.  It's a small Class A two-cylinder Shay with a T boiler - fits right in to the 1890=1900 period.  Since most logging outfits were fairly small operations, they didn't have a lot of money for new motive power.  The heyday of UP logging was around the 1890-1910 period and a lot of main line roads were retiring older power.  A lot of them were 4-4-0's and many made their way into the woods.  A lot of the small roads used small tank engines - the Porter 0-4-0T and 0-4-2T fit this mold perfectly.  Note that some of these small lokies were originally built with a passenger car-style enclosure for use on transit lines to replace horsecars.  When the electric trolley came along many of these steam dummies also went to the woods.  If you can find a copy of the book "Railroads In the Woods", there are pics of some of these lokies. 

[railtwister]

In my opinion, the Outside Frame 2-8-0 is one of the best running On30 locos you can find (if you can find one!). I have several Forneys and love them (especially the ones with sound), but they are very sensitive with track work, both on curves and to vertical changes, due to the great overhang of the couplers. I run on 22" minimum radius, but wish I had much larger curves. I also recommend the extended coupler knuckles from Foothill Models which can mitigate the uncoupling problems due to track bumps. I think the Heisler is the better choice of the three geared locos, since it's drive train looks to be a little more robust that the Climax and the Shay. I also am very impressed with my 2-6-6-2 Articulated, which seems to track surprisingly well.

I belong to a module club, and other members seem to have good luck with the little IF 4-4-0, the big 4-6-0, and the good old 2-6-0. I'm also very fond of the little Gas Mechanicals (I have several), but with so few wheels providing pickup, they tend to stall on dead frogs and dirty track, otherwise with live frogs and clean track they run great, especially when double-headed. Same thing goes for the Porters, which are real crowd pleasers, especially if they have sound.

A big surprise to me is the Precision Craft (BLI) Galloping Goose, several club members have them, and they run very well, even over the rough track frequently found on modular layouts.

Bill in FtL

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

To my way of thinking logging in Michigan means Shays.They were invented here and their main use was logging here at least in the LP.

I would think that the Bachmann Shay would fit right in.  It's a small Class A two-cylinder Shay with a T boiler - fits right in to the 1890=1900 period.  Since most logging outfits were fairly small operations, they didn't have a lot of money for new motive power.  The heyday of UP logging was around the 1890-1910 period and a lot of main line roads were retiring older power.  A lot of them were 4-4-0's and many made their way into the woods.  A lot of the small roads used small tank engines - the Porter 0-4-0T and 0-4-2T fit this mold perfectly.  Note that some of these small lokies were originally built with a passenger car-style enclosure for use on transit lines to replace horsecars.  When the electric trolley came along many of these steam dummies also went to the woods.  If you can find a copy of the book "Railroads In the Woods", there are pics of some of these lokies.  

Catt, My mental image of a Mi logging train is a Shay. But the points made by ebtnut are truths that cannot be ignored and the photo evidence seems to lean to lots of UP 4-4-0s, and Porters. Even more Vulcans.
Not finding much about Con Culhane is frustrating as his deeds, and ornery disposition, were still talked about in legendary fashion during my youth, about 70 years after his death. I just cant remember which "brand" he used. Seems like small and light weight, sure footed loco would be a must to move a whole logging operation across the frozen swamps, and uncut land, over unbalasted rails laid on stringers removed from behind, re-laid to the front, and done in a season. But that would also take power and traction too.

Speculation may be all I have to rely on, so arguing every little detail is just more food for thought. Yum!

Con ornery? You usually had to fight him to get a job, literally. Many a big guy applying thought it must be a joke at first! Not a big man, but smaller to average. He lost and won, but you got the job win or lose. A man willing to fight, is likely to be a willing worker when work gets tough, was his answer when questioned about his hiring methods. The Ellen K. loco was named after his wife, who helped him purchase it.

Late: railtwister posted during my compostion,
I wont have many switches, highly possible it may be point to point, not even reversing loops, or wyes. Unless I find proof of The Ellen K. being a larger unit, I would prefer to stick to smaller locos, those with a tight turning radius, and bad-track prowess being the focus. But the Heisler is another contender especially considering the Germanic family influences of the region, its now near the top of the list. Thanks for your opinion on the drive train too, it gave its position a boost. not sure why I haven't really considered it before.

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

  Well lookie what I just found After about 6 months of trying! Its a picture of "Engineer Hank" ? . The engineer of #1 locomotive of the Shelldrake Mi sawmill . I don't really have a year for the picture, or the business name . But I suspect this to be the Ellen K. (her number was #1) taken after Con's accidental death in 1903 under the wheels of her empty cars. And there was only one mill, with three different owners, from about 1895-1910. Now, for those with better eyes for detail and more knowledge; Is this a Baldwin like I think? 4-4-0? Approximately what build year do you think it is? Headlamp brand?

[Royce Wilson]

I am surprised that no one mentioned the Bachmann 2-6-0 mogul.The Colorado & Southern got rid of a great deal of these engines around the turn of century and some wound up in Michigan and even Alabama.
The engine has good lines and runs well out of the box and the best of all,it is cheap!

If you are not doing DCC then don't disregard this great engine as it can be backdated very easy to a 1890's engine or updated to WW2   era.

Royce

[mabloodhound]

Here's another photo of the Shelldrake sawmill locomotive.   The quality of this website photo is too small to enlarge it but you may find the original by contacting the Chippewa County Genealogy Assoc.
This photo is from 1914 and found it here: http://genealogytrails.com/mich/chippewa/cityshelldrakebusiness.html

[richg]

logging road would likely have had a Climax, Shay, or other geared locomotive, although when the Catskill Mountain Railroad quit, some of it's 4-4-0s went to logging roads - they got fitted with a planetary gear adapter on the drive wheels, though, to allow slower speed operation. 

Found a photo of that loco. Quite unusual.

Rich

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

richg--It took awhile, and Im guessing its the Ellen K., because of its size* and the #1. Lots of little trickles of info in the search. Lots of articles being repeats of others, etc. But you know how search engines can be, one day "POOF!" like magic its on top!


mabloodhound - Or, I could even drive by there the next time I make to the family cottage . Our land boarders the Hiawatha National Forest I know a couple UP timber railroad buffs, trolls (those who live below the Mackinaw bridge) who have struck out too, but I don't know for sure if they talked to the CCGA. (Not a bad idea )
     The photo- I had also found this site. *I think this second photo is a bigger loco, probably later, as the mill grew. By 1914 Culhane's widow had long ago sold the mill (and the first mill burned in 1910) I also spotted what I think was a Porter (or Forney?) on a dock photo from the 20s or 30's (after another fire(?)) and passed on its being Ellen K too.


Still no wild guesses, or confirmation of build?
Maybe I should give "general disc." a shot? More eyes?