Not so new a topic over lubing problem

[MarkInLA]

Hi all..I may have asked this a good time ago but can't locate it..I keep trying to remove the shells of my HO connie and mogul..I remove what I believe are the correct screws ( tiny two under cab and larger one above pilot truck to smokebox )..But only the cab wiggles a bit..I just can't get the shells to lift off frames. I'm affraid if I force it I'll snap something. So I give up and put screws back and let it go again...Is it in fact really necessary TO lube modern motors anyway ? I lube all other moving parts very sparingly, clean treads with alcohol (Or, AlCO haul !) and hope it's enough...What am I missing that everyone else seems to find so commonplace about shell removal..? mogul is in about 2 years now and connie about 3 months..Respectfully, I don't need more underside photos..I need a clear, precise ' How to ' explanation if you would..
Thanks again,
Mark

[Doneldon]

Mark-

No, it's not necessary to lube train motors. But it is necessary to lube gears and bearings. You can do some of this from below with some models, especially locomotives with their drive gears in little curved cases under the loco. Thorough servicing, however, includes opening the loco, inspecting everything, removing lint and other crud which builds up inside, and lubing anything which moves. For example, you need to lubricate the places which support drive shafts, if any, and places where axles or gear shafts turn. Such places need the least possible drop of glue, teflon, graphite or grease (I prefer teflon), but it is needed despite how little does the trick. These locations are, in reality, bearings and they do wear. And, they add, if only a little, to the resistance the motor must overcome to operate the loco.
                                                                                                                                                                              -- D

[jonathan]

Mark,

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,13232.0.html

This is a thread I posted a long time ago.  This should help you get the shell off the Connie.  Also shows how I re-lubed the locomotive.

As Doneldon pointed out, the motor itself does not require lubrication, and the rest of the moving parts are well lubed from the factory.  I did it just to learn how, and to share with others.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Jonathan

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

Mark-

Such places need the least possible drop of glue,.....

                                    -- D

I think Don means lube here .. Or is this a way to eliminate the need for lube entirely?

[Doneldon]

GG1-

Thank you. I can't believe I did that.

                                              -- D

[MarkInLA]

Yeah, I caught that too ! Yike, add glue !!!  Actually, thanks again for assistance. Donaldon, I thought the gearbox cover removal might be enough..No sure though. Are you concluding that I do not then need to ever remove the shell as motor does not need lube ? If so, all else is quite understandable: gear glue (oops ), gear grease, axles and valve gear oiled, pilot truck mounting screw-shaft, etc. ? I'd love to never have to remove shells..Especially all the ones found ant the beach !!!

[Doneldon]

Mark-

Well, you never have to remove a loco shell to lube a motor because the hobby motors don't require any lubrication. But there may be various other internal structures which need a little grease, bulbs burning out or brushes needing replacement.
                                                                                                                                                                      -- D

[MarkInLA]

But, until engine ceases to run or headlight goes out I need not worry about motor bearings , correct ? Then, if brushes are suspect or light has quit I would have to get in there or send it to Bachmann, yes ?
WOW, what a coincidence ! I believe I just responded to a post of yours about your Big Boy or Challenger problem in another MRR forum 10 minutes ago, not realizing at all I'd be typing to you yet again, here !!!  Or, are you not the same Doneldon ? !!
Mark

[Doneldon]

Mark-

You are correct that you won't need to go inside to lube motor bearings. If you do develop an overheating situation or blown light, doing everything would be a great idea.

No, I wasn't on another forum. And I'm really surprised to hear about the name. If you Google Doneldon with my last name, everything which comes up is me except for the Donelson Center in Nashville, which is a misprint, and an insurance salesman in Georgia whose last name is Doneldon (unless that's a misprint, too).

I just Googled myself now and I see that the Nashville place corrected the problem. There are several Don Eldon entries if only the first name is entered, a couple of whom are relatives, but no other Doneldon as one word. The closest I ever ran into was an young African-American woman (I'm white) from Chicago, as am I, who sat next to me in home room when I was a high school freshman in Covina, California in the early 1960s. Her name, which still knocks me out, was Donelda, which sounds like the feminine form of Doneldon. More of the surprise was that we had the same last name, too. That's why we sat next to one another; home room assignments and seating were alphabetical.

                                                                                                                                                    -- D

[MarkInLA]

Wow ! As I'd said, I had just posted in Trainboard.com a response to  a "Donaldon"  not 5 minutes minutes before logging into Bachmanntrains and receiving your response !! What's the odds ?!!!!!
Great to know I can ignore motor lube. But still, why does everyone seem to have no qualms about removing shells ? Why does cab start to wobble but boilers won't lift off ? Is the tug straight up ? Or do we kind of pull toward front or rear at same time ? Do any small parts like grab irons and smoke box support bars have to come off first ?

[Doneldon]

Mark-

Opening locomotives used to be a pretty standard thing. Brass locos were held together with a couple of screws, often one through the stack or up front and two near the back of the frame under the cab. There were very few plastic steamers but there were plenty of diesels. They pretty much opened by removing the couplers and spreading the sides of the shell.

Things are much different today. Plastic steamers often have screws hidden above (under?) pony trucks and tabs or bosses at the rear. Diesels still require coupler removal much of the time but the screws to loosen the shells are frequently hidden by the fuel tank which may be a friction fit, use bosses or have screw(s) which must be removed to pull the shell and reveal the shell-holding screws. Most freight cars are pretty straightforward but passenger cars, or at least the plastic ones, are real puzzles. And with plastic, there is always the possibility of doing significant damage if the disassembly is botched.
                                                                                                                                                                                         -- D
       

[MarkInLA]

Yes, I know that about old brass and say, Mantua, Tyco, Athearn and such..Real simp it was. But what I don't get is that I'll remove big screw above pilot into smokebox. Then I remove 2 screws under corners of cab ( I haven't unplugged decoder though)..Then I start to squiggle shell here and there but it never releases !! Lube motor or not, I still  should be able to get in there..but can't..Why ?

[richg]

My 4-6-0 was a tight fit. Had to pry very carefully and slowly. Cannot be ham handed in model railroading.

Rich

[Doneldon]

I start to squiggle shell here and there but it never releases !!

Mark-

This is the problem. You have done what's necessary to remove the shell but because you can't be sure there isn't another screw or latch, you're afraid to pull and tug hard enough to overcome the tight fit. Once you've opened a loco uneventfully you won't be worried about wrecking it. But that first time can be pretty intimidating.
                                                                                                                                                                                    -- D

[richg]

I just looked at Jonathan's link again and it sure looks very clear on how to remove the shell. I forgot I had book marked his link some time ago.

Rich