Steam locomotives

[BaltoOhioRRfan]

book is called Book is called Royal Blue Line by Herbert H. Harwood, Jr.  I finished reading it today at work( i was on door duty today, very boring)  They got a photo of a 4-6-2 P7 Presidental Pacific using the pans also.

[rogertra]

Track pans/water troughs were invented in the UK

Here's the Wikipeadia quote: -

John Ramsbottom, a Victorian locomotive engineer, devised the water trough/track pan. This is a very long (several hundred yards) shallow trough laid in between the rails at a suitable point on the line where tender replenishment is required and the trough can easily be refilled from a nearby water source. Obviously the entire length of the installation must be on level track, and suitable intervals between these locations and commercial stopping points are essential

[Inder]

Thank you for all the information guys.

I also was wondering, when the steam is collected in the dome?  how is it sent to the piston.
And since steam is essentially water, what did they use to lubricate the piston.  Wiki mentions it was a mixture of tallow and oil.  But it doesn't mention how it was administered into the cylinder. 

I just received my Spectrum 2-6-6-2 and I think my Spectrum 2-8-0 pulls better. 
I have read here how to remove the lettering and I plan on changing my 2-6-6-2 to NdeM railroad.
I found a lot of pictures on the internet and that's where I got the Idea.
Do you guys advice on applying a matte clearcoat to the decals so they don't fall off?

[SteamGene]

The steam is collected in the steam dome and sent by a dry pipe to each cylinder where it passes into each cylinder through a valve which opens and shuts as the piston moves.  The cylinders have an lube reservoir to allow for the lubrication.  One of the jobs of the engineer when the locomotive is stopped is to "oil round the engine," replintishing the oil supply for each of the lubrication points. 
Gene

[SteamGene]

It's a good idea to apply a glossy finish to the surface where the decals will go and then afterwards to spary with dullcote.
BTW, the last was from memory as I can't find my Steam Locomotive Cylopaedia!
Gene

[Inder]

I appreciate everyone's help here.  Thank you all.  I've been reading a lot of the DCC articles because eventually I want to go that route but in the meantime I will concentrate on getting my fleet of locomotives completed along with my rolling stock.  Next lots of Kato track because I will have a temporary layout for a long time before I do a permanent set-up since I'm a newbie (spelling police).

Well I have a black Spectrum 2-6-6-2 that I purposely bought this way so I could add my own decals.  I almost feel like I should practice on some rolling stock before I do it on my loco.   Gene, you mention Dullcote.  I'm assuming it's a product I can pick up at my local hobby shop?
Once I spray the dullcote, is the finish permanent?  Does it look a little different in the area where I spray that stuff versus the rest of the loco?

I guess if I ever need to send in my loco for repairs and the bachmann crew decides to send me a new one instead or repairing mine I will have to redo my decals. 

That brings up another question.  I purchased a few locos at my local hobby shop.  I picked up some Atlas C628's and my precious Spectrums condolidations.  Well one of the Atlas needed repairs right out of the box and they told me to ship it to the manufacturer.  I did that but I felt they should have just swapped it for me and I wasn't happy about that.   So my Spectrums 2-6-6-2 I bought brand new on Ebay since apparently I get no better service from my LHS.  Plus I save money. 
Now, the warranty cards need to be mailed right away it says but each box has some kind of serial number written.  It is located inside the box, if you remove the locomotive and the packing.  Is thi the number I need to write on the warranty card?  I don't see a serial number on the locos themselves.
Please help me with this.  I need to take care of this soon.

One more thing.  In the movie, "'Back to the Future Part III"  at the end they use a locomotive to transport Marty back to the present.  What kind of loco was it?  - just a fun question I guess

[SteamGene]

Dullcote is a Testor's product which gives a dull finish after application.  It covers up the gloss, which is necessary for proper decal adhession.  After it dries, it protects the decals from harm. 
The locomotive in BTF III is, IIRC, a Ten-Wheeler, used in many movies and tv shows.  For the life of me, I can't remember its number.
Gene

[r.cprmier]

Inder;
You mentioned you have a "black" 2-6-6-2.  Certainly it is your hobby to enjoy the way you like, but just for the heck of it, take a good look at (1);pictures of the "real thing"-in colour, if you can.  (2); take a good look at a lot of work by Bill Darnaby, John Allen, Allen McClelland, harold Zane, and John Pryke.  The one commonality is that their engines are not "black", and there is a good reason for that.  As you get farther away, dark colours tend to diminish in prominence-that is, they sort of prematurely "blend in" to almost insignificance, especially if your layout is of the 36" high variety or there abouts and the "far-away look "prevails.
Might I suggest that you first remove any existing decals you may not want, lightly reprimer the engine, and paint it a "Weathered Black" (Floquil)
or any lightened engine black, adulterated with some blue.  read up on techniques before attempting this, but trust me; it will look great. 
after that, do a gloss coat on the models to be decaled.  I tend to do the bottom half of the cab, and the whole tender because; in the case of the cab, ther eare some really neat "borderlines you can use to keep any uneven-ness from pervading an other wise good finish on the rest of the engine.  That done, do as Gene says, and decal over your glossed areas.  There are several sites on how to do good decalling; again, I suggest you read these before doing.
When completed with decalling, give the whole a coat of flat-your choice.  I use "rust-it"s dead flat because that is exactly what it is-dead!!
Now weather this engine.  Again, John Pryke has some excellent articles in past MR issues, and he also has a book that will give you some really good insight into this approach.
Always remember to use a logical approach:  most locomotives were well-maintained;  and that would include "hygene".  That said, familiarize yourself with what wold get dirty, rusty, etc and why.

When you are done with weathering your engine, give it a coat of flat-again, your choice.  THis will ensure aome degree of protection and even-ness of the job.  BTW, all if my recommendations are going to be based on your ability to use an airbrush.  If you are unfamiliar with this, get familiar; you will inevitably need this talent in other areas, and will be glad you did.  I will try to send you some pics offline of some of my stuff.  It may help, or it may not.  Good Luck.

RIch 

[Inder]

Well I have no experience in the field of airbrush and I knew one day I would need it.  No problem I'm still young - not as young but never late to start.

I will not rush things but I definitely want my steam engines weathered.  So I will practice airbrushing and I will do some research on weathering techniques.

My email address is [email protected] in case you want to send me some pictures.

Gene, Yeah now I feel I should pop in the BTF III dvd so I can see the locomotive's number.

[Atlantic Central]

Rich,

A few thoughts:

Inder seems very new, I hope we are not overwheming him with information/opinions.

While I agree with your assement of locomotive "color", I am reluctant to completely repaint factory painted, but unlettered models that I decal for my freelanced road. I have found light weathering with a light grey to be just as effective at geting the normal wear, normal light look of "black".

I believe from his post, Inder has an unlettered 2-6-6-2 which he plans to decal. I have had no problem decaling Bachmann unlettered locos right out of the box, lightly weathering them and coating them with clear flat or semi gloss.

Roger will most likely rail at your sugestion of uniform coatings of "weathered black", he has blasted me in the past for similar comments as those you made to Inder. We all have our own "perception" of these things.

Weathering is often over done in my opinion. Depending on several factors, weathering may not be all that noticable. Example - Assume for a moment that you have aready painted your steam loco an off-black color of some sort, then you have highlighted some areas with gray or tan or both to simulate dirt/wear. Viewed up close this may not be totally effective, BUT viewed from two feet, an HO model is 175' away. My front yard is 175' long, as I sit on my porch and watch the cars go by, it is imposable to tell the clean/perfect ones form the dull/dirty ones to any great extent.

Also, time period in history has a lot to do with weathering. While new equipment and run down equipment can be found in any era, some era's deserve more weathering, others less.

The 1950's was a time of general prosperity for railroads and a great influx of new equipment, so, over all, everything looked newer and was in better shape than let's say, 1936, when only passenger trains would have received such care.

Again, weathering can be completely over done, unless you model present day where no one has any pride of ownership.

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

On the subject of weathering, I think a lot of us have the John Allen Gorre and Dapthtid idea, forgetting that John modeled a struggling railroad hit hard by the Depression, IIRC. 
Remember that color picture of the USRA 0-6-0 at the end of its life, some time in the early/mid 1950s and how little filth it had on it and where. 
Let's face it if we model steam most of us have coal bunkers which look like the locomotive has just refueled, leaving the yard.  So the chances are it will be clean.   So if we have it look like its run 100 miles over poor ballast the only possible explaination is that it has JUST refueled at the end of its run. 
Gene

[Mark Oles]

Back to the Future III featured Sierra Railroad's #3, a 4-6-0 "10-wheeler".

[lanny]

Speaking of steam locomotives,

I am sure that most steam locomotives showed signs of weathering ... on the other hand there are good prototypical arguments for 'shiny' new looking locomotives as well. Just recently shopped, just purchased or built new, just rebuilt ... etc, etc. The photo below is one of my favorites on this subject. A bright, shiny, 2-10-2, and ICRR 2800 series which were the last and largest of the 2-10-2s on the IC. I don't suppose it stayed this way very long ... but sure looks nice here. 



Obviously, weathering, etc. is a personal modeler's choice and those who do it and do it well, have very beautiful results that are very realistic looking. I personally am not into weathering though I do a tiny bit to highlight the 'super detailing' I have added to my ICRR locomotives. "To each his own" I think might be appropriate here.

lanny

[ebtnut]

Just a little general history of steam to put it in context.

The 4-4-0 dominated the railroads of the 19th century, and was used in all types of service.  By 1900, though it had about reached its limit for power and speed.  The 2-6-0 followed in popularity, used mostly for freight service.  The 2-8-0 was developed in the Civil War period, and grew over time to become the dominant freight engine by 1900.  The Ten-Wheeler was also popular as a "dual service" engine, though there were some that were built especially as high-speed passenger locos. 

There was a big change in loco design in the early years of the 20th century, most especially with regard to firebox design.  Up until then, most fireboxs were narrow, and fit down between the drivers.  With the development of trailing trucks, fireboxes could get much bigger, supported by the trailing truck behind the drivers.  This led to development of the
4-4-2, 4-6-2, 2-8-2, 2-10-2, 4-8-2 in rapid order.  As more speed and horsepower were needed, the 4-wheel trailing truck was developed to allow even larger fireboxes.  This led to the 2-8-4, 2-10-4 and 4-8-4 types.

Articulateds came in about 1900, beginning with the B&O's 0-6-6-0, "Old Maude".  The early designs were built as Mallets, which means they used the steam twice, first in the high-pressure cylinders, then in the low-pressure cylinders.  Later, adavances in firebox and boiler design allowed articulateds to be built "simple", with high-pressure steam being fed to all cylinders.  Most all articulateds were freight engines, though some modern ones (the UP Challengers and the N&W Class A's come to mind) could be used for passenger service.

The Depression of the 1930's essentially put a halt to steam design, since there was virtually no market for new locos.  World War II brought about some excellent locos, but by that time the diesels were showing their worth.  Big coal-hauling roads like the Pennsy and N&W tried to hang on, but to no avail.  PRR steam ended in 1957; N&W in 1960. 

The diesels won out for a couple of reasons:  They were standardized, meaning much less in the way of parts management.  They were much less labor-intensive--you didn't need boilermakers and foundrymen and hostlers, and all the other people that were needed for a steam loco.  You also didn't need anywhere near as much infrastructure--no coal docks, no water tanks every 25 miles or so, no ash pits, etc.  Finally, even the best steam locos were only about 10 or 12 percent thermally efficient.  A lot of heat and expansive energy went up the stack.  Diesels are about 70% efficent, if memory serves.

[r.cprmier]

Roger will most likely rail at your sugestion of uniform coatings of "weathered black", he has blasted me in the past for similar comments as those you made to Inder. We all have our own "perception" of these things.

Sheldon;
I do not care.  What Roger thinks is Roger's right.  What you, Gene, Hunt, et al think is your right.  I simply contributed my thoughts, for whatever they are worth.

What I think a lot of people do miss is not so much achieved by weathering, gloss, fancy  decals, or anything of that nature; it is instead, the aspect of balance; and, as I pointed out to Inder, a logical approach to this whole thing.  Gene pointed out Allen's G&D, characterized it as a struggling railroad.  That certainly is a valid point; however, it is not one upon which to base a whole perspective.  John did more than depict a struggling railroad; he basically strove for a balance-a harmony-of things.  If you look at pics of his layout, yoiu will understand what I am saying.  His steam power is no exception.  On his roster, he had clean engines, dirty engines, and a dinosaur (we won't go into that...).  He had nice looking buildings, and decrepid ones.  Simply put, he gave what he had a meaning for being at that very moment in time; and that certainly contrributed to balance.  He was also a master of illusion.  If you take a hard look at his layout, it was not as big as one might think; but John's ability to use what he had to it's fullest made it appear so. 

As I pointed out, leaving that engine "assembly line black" is fine if that floats your boat, but it will lose that balance in a field in which we, to one extent or another, are using forced perspective to achieve.  Using a tint of blue will achieve the illusion of distance, some lightening over detail parts will indeed bring them out of the shadows.  I have sent you pics of my work, and if you look at them, they are not excessively weathered, but look lilke what they are supposed to represrent-a steam locomotive at somewhat of a distance, at work, on a real railroad, doing real things.  This grabs me immensely. Good.  it is my money.  Just as yours is yours.

At the end of the day, it is certainly a free country, and you may do with your trains whatever grabs you-as do I.

I wish a great and wonderful evening to all.  I am going to have me a Porterhouse steak-and to hell with cholesterol!

Time to feed Puppy.
Rich