Using HO Gauge for Outdoor Use

[dh8019]

I have heard several opinions online and via e-mail lately regarding the use of HO trains and track for outdoor use.  Previously, I was under the impression that you could only use HO indoors and that you could only use G trains outdoors, but statements made in some advertisements and to some model railroad manufacturers seem to indicate otherwise. 

Bachmann said that all of their equipment is suitable for outdoor use, except its G track.  To say the least, the statement completely baffled me (how can the trains be okay for outdoor use, but not the track?   ).

My wife (aka "She Who Must Be Obeyed" -  ) finally relented and agreed that an area of our backyard that, for whatever reason (too much shade, etc.), does not grow grass and would be a nice place for a model train.  I looked at G train sets and nearly had a heart attack when I saw the prices (a G locomotive alone costs the same as a full HO set  ).  I have several HO sets that I can put together to make my outdoor garden train, if it is possible. 

Obviously, it would be a bad thing, however (and She Who Must Be Obeyed would be most.....unhappy) if an electrical short burns down the house as a result of my constructing a model train that is not suitable for outdoor use in our yard.

Does anyone have the real answer on this?  I have searched the boards here and have not seen anything definitive, and was hoping I could move forward with my HO plans.  Is it possible to use Bachmann HO trains and track (or any manufacturer's train and/or track, for that matter) outdoors?  Do I need to take any extra precautions to prevent issues that I mentioned above (shorting out, etc.).  Is it basically the same as setting up a G train set, or are there other things I need to take into consideration?

Thanks for your help.

[Atlantic Central]

dh8019,

The simple answer to your question is that HO trains, regardless of brand, are not suited for outdoor use.

One, the plastics used are not UV resistant, and they will be damaged by continued exposure to heat and sun.

Two, the small size of HO, and the necessary tollerances for good operation are almost imposable to achieve in an outdoor setting. Dirt, plant life, etc. will have a dramitic effect on such small trains.

Not to mention the dificulty of mounting track in some exceptable manner. HO trains require smooth stable track with no bumps or sharp/steep grades.

Like the trains themselves, the materials used for the track are not intended for an outdoor invironment and will not last long or hold up well.

As you noted in your post, even some G guage track is not intended for outdoor use.

While many people do run their G guage outdoors, many also run it indoors.

Feel free to do whatever you want, they are your trains, but do not expect them to run well or for very long if you do it outdoors.

When they break, stop, or fail to stay on the track, it will not be the fault of the product, but will be the direct result of inapproprate use. That will be a waste of money.

Sheldon

[SteamGene]

The ONLY way you could possibly use HO outdoors would be to build benchwork like you would indoors and then provide it with some sort of shelter, especially from the sun and the UV.
It is possible to find affordable G scale, but most people I know of do not have the sort of roster that many HO fans have, because of ht expense.
Gene

[BillD53A]

I knew a guy 25 years ago who had an outdoor layout in HO.  The summer sun heated the rails enough that the spike heads melted off the ties.

It might be do-able, but it wont be enjoyable.

[Beatle (TrainBrain)]

I knew a guy 25 years ago who had an outdoor layout in HO.  The summer sun heated the rails enough that the spike heads melted off the ties.

It might be do-able, but it wont be enjoyable.

......

[Guilford Guy]

One, the plastics used are not UV resistant, and they will be damaged by continued exposure to heat and sun.

That must be why we always take to the basement.

[RAM]

I think the only thing you have going for you is shade.  However with shade comes birds.  I think you know the rest of the story.  Now do you live someplace where it does not get over 85 or belove 50.  A place that you do not get much rain.   A place where the wind does not blow hard.

[Woody Elmore]

It is possible to hand lay HO track for outdoor use. Any manufactured HO track with plastic ties would certainly not hold up. You would need to treat the ties and you'd need spikes that wouldn't rust. Shrinkage and expansion would be a real big problem.

As mentioned above clearances and tolerances become an issue with smaller scale trains. You also need to put in roadbed.

As for the price of G gauge trains, keep in mind that although they might cost more than H0 trains (which I don't really think is the case) you need fewer of them unless you have a yard the size of the White House lawn.

[djp]

I have my HO track in my veranda as i have no place in the house. It is a big NO NO. First the dust, then the humidity [i live in a very humid climate] and then ofcourse the good old heat [my track has warped slightly]. Gives me a very hard time. I have to clean my rails every week or the engines start acting up. Stick to G scale it is a better bet in the long run.

[Jim Banner]

Track problems outdoors typically result from incorrectly laid track.  Indoors, you typically have relatively constant temperature and moderate humidity changes so you can nail the track down tight, solder all the joints, and still get away with it.  Outdoors, you have extreme temperature and humidity changes which you MUST allow for.  This means mechanically gapping the rails at all joints and either electrically bonding each joint or separately feeding each section.  This will avoid the kinking as long as the base or bench work is stable.

H0 plastic ties are not normally exposed to sunlight and are probably not UV resistant.  However, a coat of black paint will make them so.  I suggest following the black coat with a coat of almost white (think concrete ties) which will help reduce tie temperature down to air temperature.  Track cleaning is a necessity in all scales outdoors, even if you use batteries-on-board power.  In H0, weekly cleaning is as simple as picking off the leaves and dead spiders, then running a slightly oily pad over the rails.

Needless to say the rolling stock should be indoors or under cover when not in use.  Most of us do that in large scale anyway.

My advice to dh8091 is to set up an oval of track and try it.  If it works well enough for you, then expand.  If not, then all it has cost you is a bit of track.

[dh8019]

Thank you all for your input.  I greatly appreciate it.  Looks like I am going to have to find some space indoors or drop a whole lot of money to get a G scale train set up (something "She Who Must Be Obeyed" will not like). 

Cost for G scale trains is an issue, at least from what I have seen online and at specialty stores.  EBay has single engines (not the whole train or track, just the engine) starting around $250 a pop.  Rolling stock isn't too bad, but the engine and the track is just prohibitively expensive (of course, I could ask my kids not to eat for a couple of months and that would solve the problem!!!   ).  I went to a specialty store and priced a full startup set - $1,200.  Granted, that was for an oval track with the Walt Disney World (or Disneyland) Railroad, but the other sets were similarly priced (that one just sticks in my mind - sticker shock).

I don't have a basement, but I do have an entertainment room separate from the rest of the house.  There is not a whole lot of space, but I may be able to move thjings around a bit to make things fit and have an HO setup (albeit considerably smaller than I would envision and that does not accomodate the trains I have).  I will pull out the measuring tape and see what I can work out.

As an aside, does anyone know of a good site to purchase used G gauge trains and track?  It has to be cheaper than buying new.

Again, thank you all for your help.

[SteamGene]

One thing to consider is that most people in G don't have anything like the inventory that an HO modeler might have,
It's also not necessary to buy everything at once.  And after all, $250 is not that much for an HO locomotive. 
Gene

[Scott S]

I sympathize with you on the price issue, despite anyone else's assertions that $250 is not much for an *HO* loco (implication: not so bad to have to spend that to get the much larger G). The G loco you get for $250 is probably a model of a small prototype and maybe a lower quality and/or lower fidelity model than any plastic HO model at that price.

Since you already have the trains but not the indoor space in the quantity you envisioned, maybe you could create outdoor space that was better suited to HO trains? How about a canopy such as offered by these folks: http://www.screen-house.com/canopy.htm. Particularly the "Garden Party".
Then you would have everything sheltered from sun (maybe not a significant concern, we are discussing a deep shade spot), rain, and what comes down from birds in the trees. As Gene suggested, you could put the trains on benchwork (or just tables) as you would indoors.

[kevin2083]

I have found that the best time to buy is after Christmas. Look for a holiday or Christmas themed set and repaint it however you want. I got a Bachmann Night Before Christmas set with a 4-6-0, gondola, and caboose for only $60 on clearence after xmas. The track wasn't suitable for outdoors, but it's still a good price. Fairly easy to repaint , especially compared to HO scale stuff.