Power Problems

[Martha]

I have Sante Fe 307 HO. The 307 derailed and fell off the table. The front wheels came off and a black wire that connects to the motor broke off. I soldered the black wire back and put the front wheels back on. Now when I put the front wheels on the track the rear wheels spin like 60 but as soon as the rear wheels touch the track, they stop moving and nothing happens. If I continue to try to get all wheels on the track with the power on it will set the circuit breaker off on the power box. Then I have to unplug it and wait to work again. Why is the happening? How do I fix the problem?

My other question is should I be placing the tracks on those strips they show on the internet for model railroading? Not sure what they are called. Appear to be like foam rubber? they also talk about cork ones? Any suggestions on either of them? I am not using the trains as model railroading, I am using them for the center attraction of my large Christmas village I set up each year. Thanks for any help or suggestions.

[rogertra]

Don't know what a "Sante Fe 307", is, steam?  Diesel? What? We don't describe locomotives by their Bachmann catalogue number but by their model and type.  e.g., "2-6-2" for a steam loco or a "GP9" for a diesel.  The box will tell you.

However try turning the wheels that fell out 180 degrees so the left wheel becomes the right wheel and the right wheel becomes the left wheel.

The wheels may be insulated on one side and you may have put them back the wrong way around and caused a short circuit.

As for the track?  It's called "underlay" or "ballast strip" and as you didn't tell what track you have, we cannot help until your do.

BTW, purchase a couple of cheap "how to" books on model railroading.  Google "Kalmbach Publications" and check out what they have available.

[Doneldon]

Martha-

There are a number of different track systems available on the market. They vary by cost, how much work they are to install, what places they look or work best, size (of the rails, not the distance between the rails), material, joining method, and other matters. Your questions make me think you are probably new to the hobby so I'll keep things simple and discuss what I think are the best options for someone who is new. There are three.

First, you can choose sectional track with plastic roadbed attached. Several companies make this including Bachmann, our host on this board. Sectional track with roadbed attached is comparatively expensive but it offers many advantages to compensate for that cost. Among these are quick and easy construction, sturdy connections between sections, ready availability, a broad selection of special sections like crossings and turnouts (commonly called switches), and the ability to be easily set up and broken down. This last feature makes it especially useful for railroads which can't be permanently built. That's not to say, incidentally, that it is not suitable for permanent models, too. The downsides of this track system are the necessity of designing track plans with only limited options for the radius of curves, the difficulty of connecting different manufacturers' tracks together, the different appearance of various manufacturers' roadbeds and the complexity of making custom, specialized lengths of track.

Another option is sectional track without attached plastic roadbed. This is cheaper but, by the time you add the cost of appropriate roadbed, the cost difference isn't great. Special components like turnouts and crossings are readily available. This track method still limits curvature choices but there aren't any problems connecting sections from different manufacturers. The appearance of different manufacturers' track does vary but not to the degree that the differences can't be made inconspicuous. This kind of sectional track is more work than the roadbed-attached track because it must be laid on separate roadbed in most cases. This track is unsuitable for temporary setups because the track sections don't stay together well unless they are permanently installed on a strong surface.

The last alternative I will offer is flexible track. This is track sections three feet long which can be carefully bent to any curve necessary. It connects just like sectional track and is equally unsuitable for temporary pikes. Flex track goes down faster than sectional track but it does require roadbed in most cases. (The exception would be yard tracks which don't need elevated roadbed, just like the 12-inches-to-the-foot railroads.) Switches, which are more properly called "turnouts," are available premade by several companies and used with flex track the same as with sectional track without attached roadbed. Flex track is usually a little cheaper than the other track systems. By far the most commonly used roadbed is flexible cork. This product has been available for 60 years so it is a proven material. It can be used under both sectional and flexible track.

Regardless of the track type you choose, you need to be aware of other factors. These are size and material. HO track is made with different sizes of rail. For years, "Code 100" was the dominant size. Code 100 rail is 100/1000" inch high, or about a tenth of an inch. This is just fine operationally but it does look somewhat oversize. Other choices are Code 83 (83/1000") and Code 70 (70/1000"). There are yet smaller sizes but they present challenges which a new modeler would probably not want to confront. Code 83 and even Code 70 look better than ode 100 without those additional challenges. Sectional track is only available in Code 100 and Code 83; I suggest Code 83 if you go with sectional track. Flex track is also available in Code 70; I urge you to choose Code 83 or Code 70 if you choose flex track.

HO track is made in both brass and nickel-silver. Brass conducts electricity well but it quickly oxidizes and its oxide is non-conductive. Consequently, it requires frequent cleaning, an onerous task. It also doesn't look much like steel unless it is painted, and the golden top still shows even then. That leaves nickel-silver which, interestingly, isn't silver at all and uses nickel as a secondary metal in the alloy. Nickel-silver is mostly copper with nickel, and often zinc. Many people consider it to be a type of brass. Nickel-silver doesn't conduct electricity especially well but oxidizes much more slowly and its oxidation is more conductive than is brass's. Nickel-silver needs to be painted and weathered for best appearance but then it has a silvery top which resembles steel rail greatly better than brass. I suppose my opinion is obvious here; I strongly urge you to use nickel-silver rails.

To summarize, I suggest that you choose Code 83 nickel-silver flex track with cork roadbed and prebuilt turnouts, crossings, crossovers and other track components.

Welcome to the hobby and this board. I'm sure you'll enjoy your activities.
                                                                                                                                                                    -- D                         

[jward]

googling santa fe 307 I was able to come up with photos.

what you probably have is an older f9 type, which is no longer made.     most of those used a pancake motor drive. removing the body, you can tell a pancake motor because the motor sits vertical on the rear truck, with the front truck not geared at all. it freewheels.  this is compared to the newer models with a much larger motor in the center of the chassis, with drive shafts to both front and rear trucks.

these  pancake motor engines, and simplar designs fro tyce, lifelike, ahm. et al generally used wheelsets which were arranged so that the front truck picked up power from one rail, and the rear truck from the other rail.   often, the wsheelsets had only one metal wheel, and one plastic wheel.  in each truck, the metal wheels must both be on the same side.   and the sides must be opposite between the front and rear trucks.

what i find interesting is that the locomotive runs when you place the front truck on the rails. this would seem to indicate that you have one of the very oldest f9s, which had the central motor and drive shafts to each truck. the power pickup on these is similar to current production. the wheelsets have both wheels metal, and both trucks pick up off both rails.    if this is true, then try removing the truck entirely, and rotating it 180 degrees.  as it sits currently, the power pickups on the front truck are most likely reversed from those on the rear truck.

if you put just the reasr truck on the rails, does the locomotive also short out?

[jbrock27]

If Mr. Ward is right on the $$ with his analysis and I have no reason to doubt he is not, your locomotive Martha taking a header off the table,  may be the best thing that ever happened.  There are so many better motive power options available today, that I do not believe that if it became too difficult for your to revive it, that it would be worth the effort or money to continue to try to do so and the best option, in my view, would be to replace it with a more current offering.  I imagine you would be impressed with the difference in performance and running characteristics.  Even if you did not go "modern" (meaning current) you could still find a locomotive with a better motor and flywheels for example that is "old" but a much better performer than what indeed you might have there.
It also sounds like from your question about roadbed, that you are advancing your layout.  It would also make sense to me to take the step to advance the motive power as well.  You are also now well armed with Doc's (Doneldon's) extensive knowledge, on this occasion, about track.  This should put you in a good position to move forward with an excellent chance of success.

[Martha]

After several tries of turning the front wheels around, the locomotive now works. THANK YOU !!!!! Now moving on to tracks. As I ONLY use this for my Christmas village main attraction, for only 3 months or so and only a handful of people see it, I won't be spending any more money on another locomotive or  updating track. I just can't afford it and not practical for the limited time I actually use the train.  If it goes around while people are here I will be happy. The village is more for my pleasure, it is not to any scale and is not designed for what I'd consider model railroading. Its just an oval shape, no room for turn outs. I will be "trying" to add the Bachmann Bridge N Trestle set and the Dual Crossing Gates. Should I use foam or cork track layout or nothing? I don't care about the noise, I've read that is one reason people use it.  I have seen how to videos on setting up the platform and the man used extruded foam board. Is that a good idea? I have it right now on ply wood and there are joints to the ply wood and I think that is where I had some problems last year, any little bump or lump or the track not laying flat seemed to thwart all efforts for it to go around the track. I don't have a problem with redoing the platform to foam, in fact it might be lighter for me to move around.  BTW I have limited space to set this up and so it will be approximately 40 inches by 60 inches (I can go longer by not wider). I am sure flex track would be great but as I said, can't afford to spend anymore on this so have to use what I have. Maybe I am being unrealistic in what I hope to achieve but I think I can do it.

To the dual crossing gates, at the present time I have this set up on my dining room table, the crossing is raised slightly and when the locomotive goes over it, it stops on it and I have to either raise the speed or give it a gentle push to get it to go again. Is the crossing designed to lay level with the track? Do I need to build up the tracks on either side of it so it will smoothly cross the crossing or if I use the extruded foam board should I cut out that section to lower the crossing? leaving it level with the tracks? Gosh I hope I am making sense on what I am asking or trying to describe about the crossing. Last question and I am will go research on line, heaven knows there are so much info on model railroading on the internet however I want to ask here to get your opinions. What is ballast? Is it important? Do I have to do this on the small layout I am using?  Any suggestions if I do need to do this how to go about it?

I could see how a person could get REALLY involved in model railroading, this video http://www.miniatur-wunderland.com/exhibit/video/4-minutes-wunderland/ is just awesome. But all I want is a simple oval with a locomotive a car or two and the caboose chugging around my Village, oh don't forget the trestle and the RR crossing and it has a Tunnel already, going to expand it up with layers for new homes. Gee I just can't stop improving it! Thank you all for your help in this matter, I will probably be back asking for more help.

[jbrock27]

M, glad you got the problem solved and you are happy

[Doneldon]

Martha-

Given your additional information, I would go with sectional track with roadbed attached. Stick with one brand to avoid having to perform surgery to connect your tracks together. Bachmann's EZTrack system is an excellent product but your main consideration should be sticking with one manufacturer. Oh, yes. Use nickel-silver track, not the steel alloy track on black roadbed. The grey roadbed looks more realistic and it doesn't come with the problems inherent in steel, especially steel that is put away for months at a time, i.e., rust. Also, Bachmann makes crossing gates which work just fine with EZTrack. I think you'll be pleased with the extra animation on your Christmas pike.

Switching to foam is a good idea. Be sure to use extruded, closed-cell foam, not Styrofoam. The two-inch material is plenty rigid for what you describe though I wouldn't try to permanently attach china or "cold-cast porcelain" items. That would make the set harder to handle and expose the buildings to off-season breakage and soil. Keep them in a separate box, slip your track board into a dry cleaner's or yard clean-up bag and you'll be all set.

The foam comes in 4'x8' sheets but it's easy to cut. You can use a saw (very messy), knife or hot wire. I find an electric saw works great. You can drill holes for you electric feeders or lights or you can just punch a hole with a pencil or screwdriver. Save your leftover foam in case you want to add another level for some of your buildings or a tunnel. (Hint: Tunnels are dynamite on a model railroad.) Use a product like Liquid Nails for projects or adhesive caulk to hold the additional foam to your baseboard and to attach your track. Use a hot wire, course rasp or electric knife to bevel additional levels so they don't look like cliffs. You can paint the foam (be sure that any paints or glues are plastic-safe) or use grass sheet or white velvet to represent snow. You can also paint on some roads and add vehicles. After all, something has to be there to justify the crossing gates.

If you want to add some snow and ice to your trains, Michaels has some acrylics with glitter which easily makes great winter effects. Use clear for ice and white for snow. The trick is to use just a little. You can always add more until you get what you want.
                                                                                                                                         -- D

[Martha]

Thanks for all the advice. I will take it all into consideration. Can't wait til next weekend so I can get started on the re-transformation of my Christmas village layout/platform. I have 20 mini homes, shops, etc, a ice skating rink, school area, hundreds of lights, road ways, trees, deer train station, people, vehicles, a tunnel, now I will add add housing using the left over extruded foam board, I seen video on plaster cloth and may make some removable hill sides or other things (for storage purposes. All I need it that darn train to finish it off (for storage reasons). Thanks once again.