what might be next for Large Scale

[bob kaplan]

Any thoughts as to where or what Bachmann might go with its Large Scale Product in the future.

  I have no interest in diesel or traction (1:20.3, 1:29 or other wise)...though I realize that others most certainly do. I was a bit dismayed with the new announcement.  Many of us have most certainly made our hopes and wishes known on this forum....but does anyone have an idea of... NOT WHAT YOU WANT, but rather where Bachmann is heading?  What .... if any new Large Scale products might we see from Bachmann?

Just you thoughts might be interesting...of course if you know for sure....input would be appreciated.

[Dave]

You have raised a good point there Bob. I guess Bachmann will eventually run out of Narrow Gauge prototypes to model, after all, there was only a certain amount built. I see them consolidating on what they've got and improving on the detail and running gear on both their Locomotives and Rolling Stock
      They could do things like, make the couplings more scale size and a little more positive in their coupling action. Spoked wheels look great, as the prototypes had on their rolling stock. Sprung Bogies ride a heap better
as well. These are not big expensive items but they make the appearance, and performance of rolling stock better.
        There is an abundance of Narrow Gauge Steam Locomotives that were in use in other countries as well. Here in New Zealand we were deeply influenced by The Baldwin design of Locomotive and being all narrow gauge 3ft 6in, there is lots of them. We were first to have the Pacific and Mountain Class Loco and they were very successful. Check them out on the Web.
          Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject

                         Dave

[Loco Bill Canelos]

Hi all,

Well I'm thinking they will be doing more 1/29th items with the success of the new street car!  Ah, but what will it be?  Steam? Diesel?  Rolling stock??  The 1/29th items seem to dominate the industry in quantity and sales, but there are a lot more items that group of modelers would put out cold hard cash for.  There are even many interesting diesels yet to be made in 1/29th, not to mention various styles of freight cars and caboose cars.  Among many I know, they prefer diesels especially with 4 wheel trucks because they are so forgiving of bad track.   One guy I know has 40 1/29th steam engines, but his track is so bad he runs only short wheelbase geeps or switchers often with only two or three cars, all on a massive layout.   In spite of that he still buys more 1/29th steamers more like a collector and most of the diesels as well, but the point is he still buys them and that is revenue for the maker.

If they do make diesels, I would like to see them made with a battery compartment and R/C socket accessible from the TOP.

Enough speculating on my part!

Bill

[M1FredQ]

At least for now we have those "Buses" coming out soon. Those should look really nice in LARGE scale.

[Chris PRR]

As far as diesels,  I'd like to see the Baldwin Sharks or an FM Trainmaster.  As for steam, any of the Pennsy Duplexes.

[Kevin Strong]

...I guess Bachmann will eventually run out of Narrow Gauge prototypes to model, after all, there was only a certain amount built...

Not by a long shot, unless you're thinking in generic terms (i.e, they've done a 2-6-0, so no more moguls; they've done a caboose, box car, etc.) There is a tremendous amount of variety in terms of narrow gauge prototypes because each railroad was for the most part unique in what they ran. But therein lies the conundrum. You may never run out of prototypes, but who's going to buy them in sufficient quantities to justify the cost of mass production? How many people model the East Timbuktu and Middle of Nowhere Western? (I mean, besides me?)

It will be interesting to see if Bachmann's foray into 1:29 represents a new direction for them. It is easier to sell standard gauge prototypes because they are more universal. Not only did multiple railroads buy GP-38s, but it's very common to see Railroad X and Railroad Y locomotives on the same train (to say nothing of freight cars of all flavors). I'd expect that to be an easier sell.

I don't "anticipate" Bachmann tipping their hat until they've got the next thing ready to go into production. Personally, I'm still holding off on building my EBT M-1 just in case...

Later,

K

[bob kaplan]

I was hoping that Bachmann might release modernize versions for their mogul and the 4-4-0...small engines that would be at home on a small R.R. The versions that are out now are limited to a time period....modern domes, cabs etc would make the applicable to the end of the 40's.   The models now exit the tracks in the 20's at the latest.  Using basically the same engine, just modifications....Does Bachmann see a future in this?

[Skarloey Railway]

You have raised a good point there Bob. I guess Bachmann will eventually run out of Narrow Gauge prototypes to model, after all, there was only a certain amount built.

Err, unless you're thinking that there is one shay and one climax and one consolidation and one Forney, this is utterly ridiculous. Sure, they could run out eventually but it would be somewhere between 2 and 5 thousand models of locomotives alone.

[Dave]

Well, I for one, would be interested in seeing your list of 2-5 thousand models of Narrow gauge Locomotives
that Bachmann might consider Modelling.
   I thought this Forum was for people to express their ideas on topics of interest, not to be told they are utterly
ridiculous.

                  Dave

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

Skarloey's estimate may be a little high, but consider how many conversion kits are available for the On30 shays alone, I get his point. One model yielding 10 "one-offs", and the next thing you know, you have a whole lot of locos, each different. Not to mention few proto locos are 100% identical, so even the change of engine numbers could be a representation of a different "model" to some.(nit picking of vernacular aside).
  Dave I see your point too, but I am more of a "runner" than a "modeler". Engine variation is more important to me than road name, in fact I prefer plain engines, no road names. Road names and 100% proto engine models together, seem to me to "lock in" what the loco would be doing, as well as where. Great for those who model that line, a little awkward for others creating a custom line. A blank slate is easier for anyone to model as they see fit. Adding to a blank, easier that removing what you don't want to see. I never understood why more trains aren't produced black, sans lettering, with decals sets supplying the road names and engine numbers. It seems the obscure lines with pre lettered locos, tend to the needs of those who would excel at lettering themselves anyhow. Proprietary paint wouldn't apply here, but for most steamers, I just don't understand the variety of road name offerings on otherwise identical locos.
Where is Bachmann heading in G? Only time will tell. Right now to abandon the narrow gauge line would yield a lot of anger amongst their established customer base, but the lost sales too those producing modern equipment in standard gauge (standard and g, same gauge track. I associate the "G" with large scale, on narrow gauge track) is a concern too. I doubt they will lock themselves into one niche, however successful. Variety, and willingness to step a little out of the present comfort zone, is often as key to long term success as sticking with what got you there. 
I really like Bob Ks idea for repurposed old Americans and other smaller locos, not every NG or short line ran new, or purely industrial locos. Some used outdated equipment converted to NG.  (Please don't ask me for a list Dave )

[JerryB]

Well, I for one, would be interested in seeing your list of 2-5 thousand models of Narrow gauge Locomotives
that Bachmann might consider Modelling.
   I thought this Forum was for people to express their ideas on topics of interest, not to be told they are utterly
ridiculous.

                  Dave

Michael Koch, in his book, "Shay, Titan of the Timber" lists 3354 Shay locomotives and 34 Willamette locomotives. I'm not going to sit down and go through the entire list, but on the two random pages I did count, something over a third were narrow gauge. That would imply that there were well over 1000 narrow gauge Shays alone!

Now add all the other types of narrow gauge geared locomotives, rod locomotives and internal combustion locomotives around the world and the statement of 2000 to 5000 narrow gauge locomotives would seem to be very probable.

What about this is ". . . utterly ridiculous?

Happy (Well Researched) RRing,

Jerry

[aspoz]

Well I'm happy enough for them to go down the 1:29 route provided the 1:20.3 (or thereabouts) doesn't get completely neglected.  One would imagine that if they are going to move into standard gauge then 4 axle diesels are the most likely product; but I'm not up with that market enough to know if there are significant gaps in it.  You'd have to think that a mallet using two of the bug mauler or C-19 mechanisms would also be a possibility.

In narrow gauge I would have thought that a re-release of the Heisler with an upgraded spec must be a good possibility given there are "current" Shays and Climaxes; but timing probably depends on the stock levels of the latter and indeed how well they are selling.  That may be wish fulfillment though, as it's my favourite geared loco.

From a wider perspective a more modern image 4-4-0 or 2-6-0 based on the Spectrum versions would certainly be attractive to me (damn, I just typed 3-3-0 instead of 4-4-0, now that's a prototype I'd like to see....).  But those possibilities aside, I would have thought variations on the C-19 theme with the aim of keeping tooling costs down, possibly looking at the EBT prototype, is the most probable.  My personal wish list includes a mid 20th century coach and a railmotor, a Brill if possible but a Doodlebug if no other choice - however, I'm not holding my breath.

Steve

[adir Tom]

I expect(hope!!) to see Bachmann enter the 1:29 full bore in the next few years. There is a real need for consistant  supply of affordable 1:29. It is essentially down to one major supplier with protype American cars and almost no availability of steam engines, Yes there are vendors, but the pricing or availability are out the price range for most of us. This creates a market need that Bachmann could easily fill.

[bob kaplan]

In the last two posts it was mentioned that hopes are for Bachmann to enter the 1:29 scale market since there is essentially one supplier of that scale.  If Bachmann does this and leaves the 1:20.3 market, what other manufacture is there for models of that scale (@ reasonable)?...They are the only ones that i know of that are suppliers of that scale.

[Loco Bill Canelos]

I don't think Bachmann will abandon 1:20.3 anytime soon, but will add 1/29th slowly and see how it goes.  In the end if they can make money in 1:20.3 they will continue to make items.  If they are not making money it will fade away like most of the 1:22.5 items have faded away except for the Annie and trainsets.  If the profit margin is high on Thomas stuff or lil Big Haulers, but very low per unit on a 1:20.3 super perfect scale steamer and you sell a ton of Thomas, but not a great amount of the 1:20.3 super perfect scale steamer, what decisions would you make if you were in business and had to make money.  Then there are warranty costs, so if the costly steamer is expensive to repair but the Thomas very simple, there are savings there as well.  Think about how much time it takes a tech to replace a gear in a Connie as opposed to one in a 4 wheel diesel motor block. 

In all honesty, in my 60 plus years of model railroading, the steamers were always the problem locos compared to dismal: diesels which were much more trouble free.  Gee, just like the real railroads ! 

Do I hope we will see more steam yes, but will not be surprised to see them come slower.   

As for Shays there may have been thousands of different versions, but if Bachmann chose to produce 50 different shays would you buy all 50, could you afford all 50?  I know I could not and actually as much as I love them would not if I could.  Same with other locos.  Once the master Lee Riley retires, who will replace him, with the crazy all out determination and work to death mentality that he has?

I try very hard not to offend anyone and hope I have not with this post, what I am trying to say is that Bachmann as a business has to make a profit.  Insufficient sales to reach profit points on a specific product will eventually lead to elimination of the product.

No offense, but I hope common sense!!!

Bill