What if the D&RGW had a 2-10-4? A Kitbash story~

[ryeguyisme]

This engine started life as an LMB KMT Brass DM&IR 2-10-4





I didn't like the tender, and the running capability of the locomotive left much to be desired, so it went off to the Kitbasher's torch











It was considered too large an engine for a heavy switcher's tender so the tender went off to a 0-10-0(which was another brass engine with a bachmann russian decapod chassis)

So a D&RGW tender from an L-131 2-8-8-2 was bought to replace it in it's stead:




The engine was give some number boards and other details and painted D&RGW style, but I was still not satisfied, the engine was really lacking the character I wanted:



So finally with existing parts I had from other projects and a D&RGW M-75 4-8-2 taking a nose dive off the work bench(a blessing in disguise) The boiler front of the M-75 was reworked and repaired and fitted onto the monstrosity and gave the engine new life with a better look, the pilot was replaced with a Varney  Casey Jones pilot and brass sheeting from my 2-6-6-0 leftover was used to make an extra set of steps. The original LMB Pilot truck was then used as the front pilot truck.







I have to say with all the tinkering I've done with this locomotive, the actual final look makes me really satisfied with the way things have turned out,this engine went from being  something neat but not completely appreciated, to just an abandoned side project, to eventually getting the recognition it finally deserves as a neat piece of art, I love it now and proud of my work.  

For anyone who has abandoned a project locomotive or similar kitbash and gave up because you didn't get the results you wanted I hope this inspires you to think outside the box and give an idea new light!  

[Doneldon]

Rye-

Beautiful work. I have to admit, I thought at first that swapping out the tender was a bit silly, even if the Rio Grande never had handrails all around, but your final outshopping photo shows me that I was mistaken. The replacement looks perfect with the Texas. Your paint and weathering are first class, too. I just can't say enough about your work. It is downright excellent. And I'm not ordinarily a gusher!

                                                                                                                                              -- D

[ryeguyisme]

Rye-

Beautiful work. I have to admit, I thought at first that swapping out the tender was a bit silly, even if the Rio Grande never had handrails all around, but your final outshopping photo shows me that I was mistaken. The replacement looks perfect with the Texas. Your paint and weathering are first class, too. I just can't say enough about your work. It is downright excellent. And I'm not ordinarily a gusher!

                                                                                                                                              -- D

Well thankfully, PFM imported just the tenders for some models, I don't know why... maybe for roundhouse filler? But I got it for a good deal from Caboose Hobbies in Denver, I saw the clear vision tender as looking very out of place for such a large locomotive so I felt a big tender from an articulated would do the trick, and it matches quite well! I couldn't stand the welded  look of the original DM&IR tender, it looked out of place for me.

Weathering is done by brush, with grimy black for paint and mixtures of white grey and black pastel chalks applied by a dry brush. I tend to find the chalk dust effect works well with creating realism and I add it when the paint isn't 100% cured so it actually sticks a bit.

But thank you, I took that as a good compliment, I like to think of the engine being a big learning process in kitbashing. I thought I was never going to find love in it again until I came up with these ideas.

[WoundedBear]

Although I'm not a particular fan of the SUBJECTS you model, I most certainly am a fan of your ABILITIES. For a fellow as young as you to have developed such skills, shows me you either had a hell of a good teacher or you have a ton of passion. Either way, your modelling is spot on.

And don't even get me started on your writing abilities. What a joy to sit and read something that's actually comprehensible. Good photography too, BTW.....but why doesn't that surprise me.

Good job young man.

Sid

[jonathan]

Agreed!

My loco interests are bit different than yours. I'd hate to see what you'd do to one of my precious B&O locos. 

However, I do enjoy your projects.  They are beautiful locomotives when complete.  It must be a treat to run so much brass around.

Thanks for sharing, and please keep showing us your babies. They are great works of art!

Regards,

Jonathan

[ryeguyisme]

Although I'm not a particular fan of the SUBJECTS you model, I most certainly am a fan of your ABILITIES. For a fellow as young as you to have developed such skills, shows me you either had a hell of a good teacher or you have a ton of passion. Either way, your modelling is spot on.

And don't even get me started on your writing abilities. What a joy to sit and read something that's actually comprehensible. Good photography too, BTW.....but why doesn't that surprise me.

Good job young man.

Sid

That may have well been one of the best compliments I've ever received, thank you!

I didn't really have much of a teacher in my adolescence, I basically started off with playing with broken down locomotives in a box of other destroyed model trains like Mantua Mikados and Pacifics with the pieces missing. Eventually when I entered grammar school, in my rebelliousness would sneak into my father's collection of MDC steam locomotive kits and build them up, run them, and take them apart, build them again, rinse wash repeat until the engines could no long be rebuilt and they remain as kitbashing fodder until an idea comes again.(I do have some circulating involving the 0-6-0 switchers)

Eventually I moved up to purchasing some of my own power, cheap plastic steam locomotives and tinkering with those. But I always had a dream to own brass and maintain a fleet. I don't like locomotives that look like something everyone else has on their pike. I feel this mentality had something to do with flipping through the pages of Model Railroading with John Allen until the binding disintegrated so now it's loose pages. The skills I've acquired are mostly the product of trial and error, much as you see from the project chronologically. I was pretty hesitant at first to cut the engine up, but the final product made it worth that leap.

This engine is pretty much the first Brass piece I actually bought with my own money, so to give it dignity really means something, and it will definitely stay with me  for the rest of my life.

As far as my writing is concerned, I do write on other forums like Facebook in a different way, but I've learned to write respectably with adults and forums such as these. It also comes from being a member of this forum since 2007? I think it is? Where members have sought out to write with good grammar, so I figure I would disappoint. 

Jonathan,

There is some B&O power that I like, such as the E-27 2-8-0, simply because John Allen had one, and I want to replicate it, which he didn't modify that much.  The Bachmann EM-1 might be considered for a future project, the tender and the obvious B&O characteristics would not stay of course. I have a B&O 2-10-2 boiler that I'm hoping to put on a 2-8-8-2 or 2-6-6-2 chassis and the 4-6-2 streamlined Pacifics I rather like as well.

But right now I have a few projects I need to FINISH before I start new ones, which is a bad habit of mine because I tend to dream big. I have a 2-8-2 and a 2-10-2 in the works soon,

Some of my inspiration does come from your posts, so don't stop what you do either, I actually would like to see you create some B&O variant articulateds like the 0-6-6-0, 2-6-6-4 and a 2-8-8-2 just to see how you would approach a project like those.

[Thomas1911]

Rye,
I second the others comments above.  I always look forward to your posts and reading about your projects.

As one of the other younger modelers on this forum, I wonder if you  wouldn't mind sharing some of your resources you've used to learn about the steam locomotives you model?  Aside from searching the internet, are there books or other literature you use?  Is it just prototype photos you work from or is there other material you're able to find as well?  I guess you look through the roster of your favorite roads for particular locomotives you'd like to model? 

It's only been the last 4-5 years or so that I've started getting into steam.  I'd like to be able to modify my locomotives for updating/backdating or replacing incorrect or missing details.  Since I am modelling a fictitious railroad, being able to move certain details around as I see fit would be nice.  Not knowing how the all the systems work makes me hesitant to make any significant changes.  I think all the piping is probably what baffles me the most.  For instance, I'd like to be able to move an air pump and then "replumb" its lines to the proper places.  Is there a book or books you could recommend to me that describes the workings of a steam locomotive in greater detail?

[J3a-614]

It's only been the last 4-5 years or so that I've started getting into steam.  I'd like to be able to modify my locomotives for updating/backdating or replacing incorrect or missing details.  Since I am modelling a fictitious railroad, being able to move certain details around as I see fit would be nice.  Not knowing how the all the systems work makes me hesitant to make any significant changes.  I think all the piping is probably what baffles me the most.  For instance, I'd like to be able to move an air pump and then "replumb" its lines to the proper places.  Is there a book or books you could recommend to me that describes the workings of a steam locomotive in greater detail?

Thomas, one book that did go into steam locomotive "subsystems" was Kalmbach's "Locomotive Cyclopedia, Vol 1, Steam Locomotives."  This was a collection of steam locomotive drawings from Model Railroader from the 1930s to about 1960 or so when the book first came out.  Some of the drawings are incredibly primitive, others approach state-of-the-art for 1960, and some are reproductions of erection diagrams.  The book itself was originally hardcover, and later was issued as a paperback (and Vol 2, which I don't ever believe was in hardcover form, was diesel locomotives).  

Anyway, the book also has several pages, also reprinted from Model Railroader, on the subject of locomotive auxiliaries and the appropriate plumbing.  Keep in mind, though, that the plumbing was in some ways not too critical.  What mattered was simply that things were hooked up right; it didn't always matter that the plumbing ran the same way from one locomotive to another, or even that it had to be particularly neat.  Both the variations and neatness (or lack of)  could become quite pronounced as locomotives got older and had been through the repair shop several times with different mechanics routing the piping around.  Sometimes variations even appeared with NEW locomotives, again due to the whims or practices of the men hooking things up (Baldwin was particularly notable for things like this).

Case in point:  a typical air compressor, either single stage or cross-compound, basically needs a steam supply pipe that typically came from a turret in or near the cab, a governor mounted on this steam pipe to control the compressor (with smaller lines, typically not modeled, connecting the governor to some point in the air system so it could measure the air pressure and turn the compressor on or off as needed), a steam exhaust line (typically running from the compressor to the smokebox and exhausting through the stack; some modern engines with "flying pumps" (SP cab-forwards) or front-frame mounted compressors, like a typical Berkshire, may have had direct steam exhaust or exhausted through a separate line that went through a muffler), an air line leading to cooling coils or an aftercooler, and from there going into the main reservoir (and from there the rest of the brake system), and in some cases an air inlet line (unusual, only if the air strainer or filter was mounted somewhere else; normally it was mounted directly on the compressor's air inlet).  Figure out the logic of the components like that, such as cold water in and hot water out on a feedwater heater, and you can plumb about any steam locomotive, at least in HO scale!

[electrical whiz kid]

Hi, Rye;
Great job.  I share your philosophy about "sameness" and (as you know) have no problems with  doing justice to a locomotive. 
Many years ago, the late Bill Schopp fired up my ambitions  with his "well, here goes nothing" approach to taking a brass locomotive and rebuilding it.  I was in SEA when I first got interested in this segment of the hobby, and certainly endorse your efforts.  Oh; I decided to build another "green-card Mike".  OK, well great job, and looking forward to reading more, especially on your work here.
Rich C.

[Thomas1911]

Thanks J3a, I'll see if I can find a copy of that book to order.  Sounds exactly like what I need.

Rye, hope I'm not cluttering up your thread.  Again, looking forward to your next project.

[Doneldon]

T1911-

MR Cyclopedia I shows up on eBay from time to time and Amazon has it for $25 new or $19 used. If you go to Amazon, you'll find two books listed with it, one by John Pryke, the other by Peter Semmens. MR Cyclopedia I will show you the photos and drawings you need and one of the others will explain what the different parts of a locomotive do. This will be invaluable if you want to do custom work or revise your locomotives so they have a family look.
                                                                                          -- D

[ryeguyisme]

Hi, Rye;
Great job.  I share your philosophy about "sameness" and (as you know) have no problems with  doing justice to a locomotive.  
Many years ago, the late Bill Schopp fired up my ambitions  with his "well, here goes nothing" approach to taking a brass locomotive and rebuilding it.  I was in SEA when I first got interested in this segment of the hobby, and certainly endorse your efforts.  Oh; I decided to build another "green-card Mike".  OK, well great job, and looking forward to reading more, especially on your work here.
Rich C.

Rich,
we still need to get together some time and talk and show each other some of the neat stuff  we get into, and maybe you can share some insight on what a career would be like as an electrician, I've been giving it some thought lately. How do those SY mikado's run anyways, I have one holed up in a basement in East Hartford, though I think it's long gone now. I'd be one to convert them, Americanize them if you will, but Box-pok drivers aren't my thing, although I'm not completely senslaved to sticking to that. I will definitely have to look up Bill Schopp, the name sounds familiar.


Thomas, the biggest resource I use is the internet. Mainly because of the vast amount of pictures floating around, and I also visit brass dealer sites daily. Those provide adequate inspiration and helpful hints as to where things go. To be honest the 2-10-4 is lacking AIR TANKS! But That's an easy fix. Two of my M-75 4-8-2's had elesco feedwater heaters, which I'm not much a fan of, so I removed them and I had to move the piping around and all that. They're still incomplete, because they need to be fitted with Worthington feedwater heaters.



Another great resource is model railroader magazines from the 40's 50's and 60's which contain a lot of steam detailing tips from a time where selection wasn't that great and you HAD to go brass for uniqueness. When I study a steam locomotive, I break it down into groups, first the running gear and the wheels, the unique thing about the Rio Grande mountains is that they had the eccentric crank and drive rods connected to the third set of wheels, not the second set like found on USRA and other typical 4-8-2's which makes them extremely difficult to model in plastic unless you know how to move all that around. The next group I look at is the boiler and the domes and the various shapes and sizes and the tapering of the boiler and the shape of the firebox. Every railroad had their distinct characteristics that separated them from each other, that's the beauty of American railroading is the personality connected to the roads the engines ran on, like wheel arrangement all the way down to the headlight's and marker lights. They're the eyes and noses of the locomotive like the feedwater heaters are like foreheads. I hope you're catching the analogy I trying to present.

For  typical D&RGW engine, they used Pyle headlights, Handlan Radius style marker lamps, Number boards, and a specific D&RGW pilot as well. Of course the 2-10-4 is completely like that but I did use a few of the aforementioned parts.

A good reference guide/book would be the PSC Precision Scale Co. HO and HOn3 Steam locomotive Super detailing parts catalog, and inside  it'll show you various odds and ends you might need to personalize your locomotives as well as piping diagrams.

Always feel free to ask, there's no such thing as a dumb question, with everything I've done in life, I started from the bottom bare basics.

And no you're not cluttering my thread at all, I'm always open to discussions, that's why I always come back here!

[Thomas1911]

Doneldon, thanks for the book suggestions.  I'll look those up and add them to my list.

Thanks for the tips Rye, I'll look up the PSC catalog also.

[J3a-614]

Rye mentioned wanting to look up Bill Schopp.  Schopp wrote mostly, if not entirely, in Railroad Model Craftsman, going back to the 1930s.  He originally was a freelance modeler, scratchbuilt trolley cars with working overhead that were dependable enough to backpole out of his carbarn.  Curiously, given his technical ability to get reliable trolley operation, his profession as a watchmaker, and his later abilities with steam locomotives, the trolleys weren't the most attractive models you would see visually.  It had been suggested he was working in a form of caricature, which seems likely considering his HO road was called the Moonlight & Violins!

The brass model conversions were sometimes along the lines of what Rye has been doing--placing a superstructure of one on the running gear of another and changing details to get a prototype that wasn't available otherwise.  I recall a number of conversions included swapping a CB&Q 2-8-2 boiler onto a 4-6-2 running gear from something else (!!@#$%^##!! magazines are all boxed away), modifying a UP 4-8-2 to become a Burlington engine, a variety of other modifications including making a Mantua General into a freelanced camelback 4-4-0, and coming up with a Santa Fe "Bull Moose" 4-4-2, which was a rather strange and kind of ugly steamer--originally a compound 4-4-2 with the drive to the No. 1 axle, like a 4-4-0.  Interestingly, this prototype was offered in model form as the AT&SF 4-4-2 made by Model Die Casting-Roundhouse for many years; the MDC model was based on drawings in that MR Cyclopedia Vol. 1, which were for a very heavily rebuilt Bull Moose that was shortened considerably and had the traditional Atlantic configuration of the main rod going to the No. 2 axle.

Bill Schopp died at about the same time as John Allen, and the obituaries for both men are in the same issue of RMC.

[ryeguyisme]

I saw and article by Bill Schopp on making an Erie 0-8-8-0 Camelback Articulated , and I have to say now I really want to look into more of his work. I was really taken by the idea and made me think of applying it to make like D&RGW L-95 and L-96 2-8-8-2's. I was even thinking along the lines of doing stuff like that using AHM 2-8-8-2 chassis.