Turnout Problems Revisited

[keesu]

Hello, All

A few weeks ago, I started a new topic to ask for assistance with Bachmann turnouts, specifically a DCC #5 Left and Right (Item Nos. 44132 and 44133).  I've also used the regular DCC turnouts left and right (Nos.  44130 and 44131, the ones without a number like #4 or #5) and have never had a problem with them.  I bought the two #5s because I was running cars that are too long for the regular turnouts.  From the moment I started using them, I had nothing but derailments whenever I went a certain direction.  Thanks to you guys, I was able to solve the problem with a little filing of the tips.  

All went well until yesterday, when I placed my beautiful new set of MTH Southern Pacific Daylight passenger cars on the track and started to roll.  As soon as I backed the train into the #5 right turnout, the train derailed.  (I have had no problem with this turnout when I run any other train, that is, after I fixed the initial problem with it.)  I ran the SP train on the #5 left turnout, and it ran perfectly.  I'm once again stumped as to how cars can behave so differently on the same turnout.  I've done some more filing on the points of the turnout, but this time it didn't solve the problem.  I've tried everything I can think of, but as soon as I back the track through the turnout, the wheels catch on the left point, even though there's not much left to catch the wheel on.  

I've noticed that the regular turnouts have much longer points, that is, they extend way beyond the point where the points anchor to the switching mechanism.  I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that I've never had a problem with them.  I'm once again very frustrated since I'd really love to run this magnificent set of cars, lights and all, without having to anticipate derailments.  If this continues, I'm going to have to use different turnouts, although I have no idea what would be compatible with EZ Track.  I remember one of you saying that you make your own turnouts, but that may be a little too rich for my blood.  

Any help would be appreciated.  

Thanks,

Keith

[Jerrys HO]

Keith

I feel your pain on this issue. I have 17 all numbered 4,5 and 6's.
I have found the biggest fix was to cut a piece of plywood the same thickness of my foam board (assuming you have foam board underneath)and cut to shape of turnout and gluing the turnout to the plywood. The slightest bend in the turnout seemed to cause a lot of derailment issues and that has cured most of them.
I have even gone as far as dissecting a few and found the little piece of wire that throws the points is very weak. I took the liberty of replacing the thin wire with a heavier gauge and that helped tremendously. I do plan on replacing those wires on all of them as it seems to hold the points a little tighter to the rails.If you remove the cover underneath you will see the wire I am talking about. I snapped a picture before I disassembled it because the gears have to aligned precisely to work correctly.
Also try loosening the trucks a little on your new cars to see if that helps first. I have an A-B-B-A set up that when the A unit went through and the B unit hit the points before the A unit was out of the turnout it seemed the A unit was forcing the points to move and the B unit would pick the points. By loosening the trucks it virtually stopped the derails.
Other than that you may have a defective turnout and I would suggest contacting Bachmann for replacement. I have heard this helped other's but I have yet to have to return one.

Jerry  

[jward]

like jerry said, try focusing on the cars themselves since everything else works fine.

i'd try loosening the truck screws a bit on these cars, also make sure the wheels are in guage. checque them against an nmra standards guage to see if they're in spec. another thing you may need to do is add weight to the cars. gluing pennies to the floor in the interior of the car is a cost effective way to do this but may not work for you if your passenger cars have interior seating. you can also use buckshot, the finer the better.

[Bob_B]

Hello, All
.....  
I bought the two #5s because I was running cars that are too long for the regular turnouts.
.....
Thanks,

Keith

Can I ask, why didn't you get the #6 turnouts?
I chose those right from the start to avoid derailments with larger locos and cars although I still get the odd derailment. They are 10 degree, the #5's are 12 degree.
I'm going to have a look at the DCC Wye turnouts as they are 6 degree.

[keesu]

Hello, All
.....  
I bought the two #5s because I was running cars that are too long for the regular turnouts.
.....
Thanks,

Keith

Can I ask, why didn't you get the #6 turnouts?
I chose those right from the start to avoid derailments with larger locos and cars although I still get the odd derailment. They are 10 degree, the #5's are 12 degree.
I'm going to have a look at the DCC Wye turnouts as they are 6 degree.

Hi, Bob

I really don't remember why I settled on the #5 turnouts, but I'm not really sure if it would have made any difference if I had chosen #6's since it may not be a problem with the degree but with the quality of the construction.  I had another #5 that would allow any smooth crossing no matter what kind of car I ran.  Thanks to members of this forum, I was able to fix the problem by filing down the points so that the wheels wouldn't catch on them. 

Now you've got me thinking that perhaps I chose the #5's because I have limited space.  Are the #6's longer?

Keith

[keesu]

I have found the biggest fix was to cut a piece of plywood the same thickness of my foam board (assuming you have foam board underneath)and cut to shape of turnout and gluing the turnout to the plywood. The slightest bend in the turnout seemed to cause a lot of derailment issues and that has cured most of them.
I have even gone as far as dissecting a few and found the little piece of wire that throws the points is very weak. I took the liberty of replacing the thin wire with a heavier gauge and that helped tremendously. I do plan on replacing those wires on all of them as it seems to hold the points a little tighter to the rails.If you remove the cover underneath you will see the wire I am talking about. I snapped a picture before I disassembled it because the gears have to aligned precisely to work correctly.
Also try loosening the trucks a little on your new cars to see if that helps first. I have an A-B-B-A set up that when the A unit went through and the B unit hit the points before the A unit was out of the turnout it seemed the A unit was forcing the points to move and the B unit would pick the points. By loosening the trucks it virtually stopped the derails.
Other than that you may have a defective turnout and I would suggest contacting Bachmann for replacement. I have heard this helped other's but I have yet to have to return one.

Jerry  

Jerry,

It looks as though these turnouts have really put you through the ringer!  You know, I decided to go with Bachmann track and turnouts simply becuase I'm new to the hobby and don't have much technical knowledge about how to start from scratch, but these turnouts, as much as I like them in many ways, have defeated my purpose in purchasing them.  I actually broke one a couple of months ago trying to make it work--$50 down the drain.  I had the same problem you expeirenced with an A-B set when the A unit caused the points to catch on the B unit.  After filing the points down, everything worked fine.

Last night I filed down the points on this latest nightmare of a turnout and manually ran one of the cars from my Daylight set into the turnout, and it still kept catching on one of the points.  I finally gave up and went to bed.  Today I put the the entire set back on the track and for some reason it worked fine, forward and backward through the turnout.  I think the heft of having the entire train on the track helped with forcing the points to adhere to the track.  I also loosened the truck screws a bit, as jward recommended, so that may have helped.

Thanks so much for your advice.  I have another #5 turnout that I haven't opened yet.  I only hope that we don't have t revisit this issue another time!

Keith

[Bob_B]

....  Are the #6's longer?

Keith

I've never owned a #5 but according to SCARM the #6 is about 3.75" longer.

[jward]

yes number 6s are longer. the frog number refers to the angle of the frog, as a ratio of spread of the rails to length.

for a number 6, it takes 6 units of length for the rails to spread 1 unit. for a number 4 it only takes 4 units. thus, the larger the number, the longer the switch.

[Joe323]

As a general rule Bachmann Turnouts require filing of the points.  It took me along time to learn this.  Also adding the extra weight definately does help keep cars on track.  I follow the NMRA HO standard of 1/2 OZ per inch of car length in HO + 1 OZ (In HO).   Also make sure your cars and track are all in gauge.   Finally watch your speed.