K-27 Rio Grande

[narrow gage bob]

Im totally blind sided by you anounced 1:20 K-27 way to go Bachmann! How exciting! I new you guys would do It. Is On30 or HOn3 NEXT? I hope!

[Hunt]

Blackstone Models is a source for models in HOn3.
http://www.blackstonemodels.com/products/k27home.htm

Don't look to Bachmann for HOn3.

[amdaylight]

Bob,

I don't think that Bachmann will do a K-27 in On30 as PSC/MMI already has done one, and a very nice one at that. As to HOn3, I think Bachmann is doing the K-27 for Blackstone/Sound Trax. I have two of them and the box, the packaging and the part sheets all look like the way Bachmann is packaging their products. The CD that was included with the K-27 matched the CD that was included with the Forney.

Andre

[taz-of-boyds]

The 1:20 scale should be G scale narrow gauge...
Charles

[JerryB]

The 1:20 scale should be G scale narrow gauge...
Charles

Sorry, but it is NOT ". . . G scale . . .".

The K27, like all of Bachmann's "Spectrum" locomotives, is 1:20.3 scale, narrow gauge. That scale / gauge combination is named Fn3, where the "F" designates a 1:20.3 model scale, "n" designates narrow gauge, and "3" designates the prototype's 3 feet between the rails. This scale running on 45mm gauge track is an accurate scale / gauge combination.

Happy (F Scale) RRing,

Jerry Bowers

[zubi]

Jerry, for all of us who have been playing with G-trains for more than a decade it is and will remain G-scale, Generic, Gross;-) and Good for the Garden! Hopefully, the new Bachmann K-27 will also satisfy those terms and join the large family of G-scale trains. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi

[JerryB]

Zubi:

I've been in model RRing for nearly 60 years and in LS model RRing since the early 1980s (well more than 20 years). I, like most of the modelers I know, have always worked to be reasonably precise in our model RRing language, as well as our speech and writing in general. If we are going to be able to have meaningful discussions, then we need to recognize that items like scale, gauge, dimensions, grades, colors, etc. have specific words to describe them. A brown boxcar isn't called 'Green' just because someone likes, or first learned, the letter "G".

I'm certain there are some folks who just don't care if they communicate clearly. They of course can call it anything they want without anyone's permission or correction. By doing so, they just show their lack of knowledge and understanding.

To educated folks, 'things' have specific words and symbols to describe them. That's how we communicate with each other. Those are the folks I respect and want to deal with.

I too hope the K27 will do well, but it still isn't ". . . G scale . . .".

Happy RRing,

Jerry Bowers

[Guilford Guy]

And on some layouts people model   FS4.6083333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333
You get the point 

[zubi]

Zubi:

I've been in model RRing for nearly 60 years and in LS model RRing since the early 1980s (well more than 20 years). I, like most of the modelers I know, have always worked to be reasonably precise in our model RRing language, as well as our speech and writing in general. If we are going to be able to have meaningful discussions, then we need to recognize that items like scale, gauge, dimensions, grades, colors, etc. have specific words to describe them. A brown boxcar isn't called 'Green' just because someone likes, or first learned, the letter "G".

I'm certain there are some folks who just don't care if they communicate clearly. They of course can call it anything they want without anyone's permission or correction. By doing so, they just show their lack of knowledge and understanding.

To educated folks, 'things' have specific words and symbols to describe them. That's how we communicate with each other. Those are the folks I respect and want to deal with.

I too hope the K27 will do well, but it still isn't ". . . G scale . . .".

Happy RRing,

Jerry Bowers

Jerry, In that case you have been in the hobby for long enough to know better;-)...
Also, communication is about optimising information transfer not about accuracy of
a measurement. Most folks know what *size and gauge* G-scale stands for while
not so many know what the F-letter is supposed to represent - and who can
blame them... If I want to be precise, I refer to the scale representing 3feet as
45mm as 15mm scale and this is about the highest accuracy possible since unlike
F it carries both the meaning (the precise recipe how the scale is obtained) and
no error (unlike F or 1:20.3). So to me this K-27 is still G-scale if I want to be clear to
the general public. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi PS aren't these scale wars fun;-)?

[taz-of-boyds]

I did not mean to be imprecise, but last I knew, the scales that use the 45 mm gauge were informally specified, or at least not standardized and accepted industry wide.  But I hoped to get the basic idea across.  Very seldom have I seen regular reference to larGe scale letter designations, more often I see the actual numeric scale referenced if it is appropriate...

Thanks,
Charles

[Hunt]

Jerry, for all of us who have been playing with G-trains for more than a decade it is and will remain G-scale, Generic, Gross;-) and Good for the Garden! Hopefully, the new Bachmann K-27 will also satisfy those terms and join the large family of G-scale trains. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi

Zubi,  if you have been reading my posts, over many years, concerning scale and gauge, then it will be no surprise to you…  I do not agree with you about the G-scale part of your statement.

To me, G-scale is only 1:22.5 scale proportion, model to prototype (the real thing).

Fn3 does identify (as JerryB points out) narrow gauge equipment. The use of the letter F is derived from fifteen in the actual scale, which is fifteen mm per foot.

I recognize in the large scale electric model train hobby the term G-scale has generally come to mean any scale running on Gauge 1 (45 mm) track. Thus it is necessary to always ask which scale someone has in mind when G-scale, G, or G-gauge is used.

I prefer, as it more informative, to use the scale proportion than a letter.
So the Bachmann K-27 to me is  1:20.3n3 or just 1:20n3. 

[zubi]

Hunt, Well, no I have not been reading your posts - sorry. But that does not have anything to do with you. I get bored and tend to skip scale and gauge stuff since Stan and a few other guys decided to mess up the perfectly good G-scale world;-)... I guess you are aware that the f-letter is a purely political and commercial concept and as such I tend to avoid it. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
PS numeric 15mm is pretty international denomination, while 15 does not start with f in my mother tonque

[glennk28]

Whatever you call the scale, it remains that a boxcar in 20.3 is about 2 inches longer than the same car in 22.5 (G). When together, the difference is very noticeable. gj

[Hamish K]

"G" was invented by LGB as a promotional label to desribe their 1:22.5 scale on 45mm track range. The correct European designation for this is IIm and this, at least for a while, used to be on LGB boxes. (II is the european term for 1:22.5, the suffix m means metre gauge). "G" was convenient for LGB as it hid that not all of their models were to 1:22.5 scale (e.g. the standard gauge prototypes) and that not all the prototypes were metre gauge. As the originator of the term used it imprecisely I think we should accept that it is not a precise term.

Hamish

[zubi]

"G" was invented by LGB as a promotional label to desribe their 1:22.5 scale on 45mm track range. The correct European designation for this is IIm and this, at least for a while, used to be on LGB boxes. (II is the european term for 1:22.5, the suffix m means metre gauge). "G" was convenient for LGB as it hid that not all of their models were to 1:22.5 scale (e.g. the standard gauge prototypes) and that not all the prototypes were metre gauge. As the originator of the term used it imprecisely I think we should accept that it is not a precise term.

Hamish

Hamish, this is entirely true. 'G' is an umbrella over many scales ranging from about 1:13 (feldbahn) to about 1:27 (standard gauge) but operating on 45mm track,  while not being gauge 1 (which is 1:32 of course). One should remember that most LGB originates from other gauges than meter gauge. The most profound example is their Stainz - the first LGB model ever. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi