steam loco paint?

[union pacific 844]

should a passenger steam loco be gloss black or flat black? and what do i need  to apply decals ?

[justl]

I would say flat black for a passenger steam locomotive but you can use gloss black and then kill the gloss by spraying with Testor's dulcote.  But, wait until after the decals are affixed to apply dulcote.
Re decals, get a bottle of micro set and  a bottle of micro sol.   Use them in alphabetical order, one when applying the decal and one afterwards.  I found that using the micro sol too soon causes the decals to float and shift.  Let the decal dry for awhile and then apply microsol.  I use an eye dropper and absorb excess with Kleenex.  The microsol works quickly to harden the surface of the decal.  Apply dulcote after decal is dry and you will be amazed at how the all evidence of any film associated with the transparent part of the decal simply disappears.  Apply dulcote sparingly, opt for separate thin layers if you want more dullness after a first spraying.  it goes on looking very glossy but dries quickly to a dull finish. Putting it on too thick makes the finish milky. 

[Doneldon]

844-

Trim your decals as close to the printed area as possible. The edges of the decals will show if they are separated from the print.

When you remove the excess water, use just the edge of a Kleenex and let it soak up the water with capillary action. DO NOT actually blot or rub the decals because they will be both loose and fragile. That is, you'll wreck them. You can use a damp Q-Tip to wipe away any water marks after the decal is dry but before you overcoat it with Dull Coat or equivalent.

Many people use distilled water for decaling so there aren't any water marks but you might still get some marks from the dissolved glue so it probably doesn't matter much what water you use unless you know yours is either very hard or has been softened. Each of those conditions will usually leave some marks which you'll have to remove.

You may find some small, silvery looking bubbles in your decals after they've dried. If so, use a tiny drop of Microsol and carefully poke the bubble with a pin. Let the decal soften for a couple of minutes and then use a Q-Tip to settle the decal down and push the air out. Don't worry if you have several bubbles or you have to do one a second time. If you are careful and patient, your decals will settle down, wrap around small parts like rivets or panel lines, and disappear. Once you Dull Coat them they'll be all but invisible.

Good luck!
                     -- D

[union pacific 844]

so clear coat over the decals ?

[justl]

After decals have dried (overnight) I spray dulcote over the entire engine or car, of course, over the decals too.  It protects them from damage when handled.  And greatly improves the overall appearance.

[ebtnut]

Getting back to the original question - in the golden days the passenger engines were usually kept clean and wiped down between runs so they usually had some sheen to them.  Freight engines, not so much.  However, like a lot of things in the model world, a gloss finish doesn't scale down well.  I would use just the minimum amount of Dullcote needed to hide the decal film but trying to leave a bit of sheen to the finish.  This is better done with an airbrush than just the spray can but with care you should be able to accomplish it. 

[Pacific Northern]

Gloss Black is too shiny, if you want to portray a new steam locomotive right our of the shop on its arrival, gloss black would be fine, otherwise for a passenger engine kept clean use the satin black finish, has a shine but not too much.

For freight engines with a minimum of cleaning Flat Black would be fine. remember to use a bit of rust as well, rust formed very quickly on the old steam locomotives.

[rogertra]

Gloss Black is too shiny, if you want to portray a new steam locomotive right our of the shop on its arrival, gloss black would be fine, otherwise for a passenger engine kept clean use the satin black finish, has a shine but not too much.

For freight engines with a minimum of cleaning Flat Black would be fine. remember to use a bit of rust as well, rust formed very quickly on the old steam locomotives.

How quickly did rust form on a new steam locomotive? 

Seriously, I just spray everything with a flat spray, like Dull Cote.  As someone else mentioned, gloss just doesn't scale down but I find that flat un-weathered Dull Cote  looks very acceptable.  Even my motor vehicles get a light spray of Dull Cote to kill that overly glossy factory finish.

[Thomas1911]

This may or may not be a good suggestion, but what about a satin or semi-gloss finish? 

For example:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHG82

[the Bach-man]

Dear UP,
See:
http://www.micromark.com/html_pages/instructions/85836i/85836-loco-weathering.pdf
Have fun!
the Bach-man

[Doneldon]

Thomas-

There certainly is a place for a satin finish, perhaps on the motive power for a railroad's crack passenger train, or a loco newly out of the paint shop. However, be aware that semi-gloss and satin aren't the same. Semi-gloss is shinier than satin. I wouldn't hesitate to use satin on a new or especially well-maintained locomotive but, to my eye, semi-gloss is just too shiny.

                                                                                                                                                -- D

[Pacific Northern]

Gloss Black is too shiny, if you want to portray a new steam locomotive right our of the shop on its arrival, gloss black would be fine, otherwise for a passenger engine kept clean use the satin black finish, has a shine but not too much.

For freight engines with a minimum of cleaning Flat Black would be fine. remember to use a bit of rust as well, rust formed very quickly on the old steam locomotives.

How quickly did rust form on a new steam locomotive? 

Seriously, I just spray everything with a flat spray, like Dull Cote.  As someone else mentioned, gloss just doesn't scale down but I find that flat un-weathered Dull Cote  looks very acceptable.  Even my motor vehicles get a light spray of Dull Cote to kill that overly glossy factory finish.

Rust forms quite quickly, a few days and you would have rust starting to show. Only around the steam lines where vapour was escaping, the steam line which rang the bell was one of the big culperts. The fireman or oiler on the larger engines used to wipe down the boiler with oil, just about every day. Not the whole boiler, just hear the steam lines where the rust would start.

[rogertra]

Gloss Black is too shiny, if you want to portray a new steam locomotive right our of the shop on its arrival, gloss black would be fine, otherwise for a passenger engine kept clean use the satin black finish, has a shine but not too much.

For freight engines with a minimum of cleaning Flat Black would be fine. remember to use a bit of rust as well, rust formed very quickly on the old steam locomotives.

How quickly did rust form on a new steam locomotive? 

Seriously, I just spray everything with a flat spray, like Dull Cote.  As someone else mentioned, gloss just doesn't scale down but I find that flat un-weathered Dull Cote  looks very acceptable.  Even my motor vehicles get a light spray of Dull Cote to kill that overly glossy factory finish.

Rust forms quite quickly, a few days and you would have rust starting to show. Only around the steam lines where vapour was escaping, the steam line which rang the bell was one of the big culperts. The fireman or oiler on the larger engines used to wipe down the boiler with oil, just about every day. Not the whole boiler, just hear the steam lines where the rust would start.

I've fired steam and driven so I know all about what happens.  And yes, what you say is generally correct though it's not the enginemen's job to wipe down an engine, that's other people's work though these days on "preserved" railways/roads enginemen do take a little more pride than they did back when steam was the everyday motive power.  :-)

[Doneldon]

rust formed very quickly on the old steam locomotives.

PacNo-

Absolutely. It's important to remember that steam locomotives spent most of their lives out in the elements. They heated and cooled which made their metal parts expand and contract. Some parts got very hot, indeed. There were lots of places where different pieces, even different metals, met. The steam and water which invariably leaked out at least a little frequently contained corrosive substances, especially alkali in some parts of the country. The omnipresent heat on many areas effectively accelerated corrosion and other degradation processes. And remember, all of this was happening before today's metallurgy and high tech paints.

Yes, indeed. Corrosion started before the loco was even built and it continued inexorably whether the machine was on the point of a train, waiting on the ready line for its next assignment or sitting in the roundhouse. The deterioration, inside and outside, was held at bay as much as possible but that maintenance was fabulously expensive. Enter the diesel.

                                                                                                                                          -- D