4/8 layout

[jbrock27]

Thank you Thomas for your assistance.
What confused me about what Joe said, was his original post did not include the wording about running 2 trains from 2 different power sources.  This is why I did not understand why he said blocking was needed and why I asked my original question.  I don't know why he went back and edited his original statement after my question (kinda like a politician or baseball player caught on steroids ) which has led unfortunately to all this back and forth with Mr. Ward.
I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question concisely and understanding why I was asking what I was asking.

[jward5969]

thank you guys for all the help.

[Doneldon]

PS JeffMy original question still stands: if running the above pictured layout on DC and only running 1 train at once, off one power source, is it necessary to have the loops isolated?
Thanks.

jb-

The two loops do not need to be isolated if you are running a single train on DC, or if you are running one train on DC on each of the two loops. In the second case, both trains would run the same direction unless you have physically reversed the polarity of the wiring inside of one of the locomotives.

On occasion, answers on this site get more complicated than is strictly necessary. I'm as guilty of that as anyone. I believe this happens because we expect to see complicated questions which we think require complicated answers or we are trying to cover all of the possibilities when the original post isn't explicit enough. We should probably ask for clarification more often instead of trying to imagine what the posters mean when they aren't clear.
                                                                                                                                                       -- D

[jbrock27]

Thanks for chipping in Doc.
It was Thomas who finally got me the answer after all the shenanigans caused by Satnik's first post, when he left out certain statements, which led me to ask my question for clarification.  Bc what he first said, did not make sense to me.  For some reason  after I posted my question, Satnik  went back and revised his post.  Only he can answer why he went and did that.  In the meantime, Mr. Jeff Ward appeared more than happy to enforce that I was missing something, when in reality, it was Satnik's original post that was missing the something-the words he later  added.  Satnik's only response to me to in whole mess was to tell me to go get a book on block wiring-CLASSY!

[Jerrys HO]

Someone needs another HUG!

[jbrock27]

Yes, I would really, really like that.

Hey, my birthday is coming up-I expect to get some nice, heartfelt birthday wishes.... 


Re: the above-it's my low tolerence for b...

[jward]

PS Jeff

My original question still stands: if running the above pictured layout on DC and only running 1 train at once, off one power source, is it necessary to have the loops isolated?
Thanks.

in theory, if you only ever planned on running one train at a time, you wouldn't need any gaps.

as a practical matter, it is a good idea to plan for the running of that second train and put your insulators in when you lay the track, in order to avoid the hassle of ripping up your track to put them in later. it is better to have them and not need them, than to need them and not have them.

[jbrock27]

I see the wisdom in that Jeff.  Thank you.

[rogertra]

PS Jeff

My original question still stands: if running the above pictured layout on DC and only running 1 train at once, off one power source, is it necessary to have the loops isolated?
Thanks.

in theory, if you only ever planned on running one train at a time, you wouldn't need any gaps.

as a practical matter, it is a good idea to plan for the running of that second train and put your insulators in when you lay the track, in order to avoid the hassle of ripping up your track to put them in later. it is better to have them and not need them, than to need them and not have them.

Just cut the rail, no need to take any track up in order to provide gaps.

[jbrock27]

Good point Roger.  I have an X-Acto razor saw on hand for just those occasions.  I have yet to make the layout with the blocks that I plan and when I do, I will be using the Atlas insulated rail joiners to make my isolations.  In the event I goof something up once everything is locked down, I have the razor to help fix those boo boos.  Or I guess, I could also use my Dremel tool for those fixes, just have to be sure to wear eye protection.

[Doneldon]

Roger-

Cutting the rails is the only way to go for installed track. Many folks slip a
piece of styrene into the gap and then trim it to the rail contour and paint
it. It becomes invisible.
                                      -- D

[Len]

Considering you have to be able to walk around it to work on things, a 4x8 actually takes up a lot more space than most people think. Cutting the 4x8 up to make an 'around the wall' shelf type layout may actually give you more operational possibilities, and allow for larger radius curves.

Check out some of the Kalmbach books for around the room ideas, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Len

[rogertra]

Considering you have to be able to walk around it to work on things, a 4x8 actually takes up a lot more space than most people think. Cutting the 4x8 up to make an 'around the wall' shelf type layout may actually give you more operational possibilities, and allow for larger radius curves.

Check out some of the Kalmbach books for around the room ideas, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Len

I agree 100% with Len.  A 4 x 8 takes up way more space than people think and is, in my not so humble experience, the worst use of a sheet of 4 x 8 plywood.

A 4 x 8 plywood sheet requires a minimum of 24" all around for very cramped access, 36 inches is better.  If you place the 4 x 8 against one wall, you cannot reach much more than 30 inches into the 4 x 8 so the rear centre is in accessable.  If you place it in a corner, access is even more restricted. 

Beside, a good model railroad does not need mindless tail chasing, that gets boring really fast.  Follow Len's advice and check out track plans on variations of the 4 x 8.  Sadly, even MR continues to push the 4 x 8, especially around Christmas.

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

Beside, a good model railroad does not need mindless tail chasing, that gets boring really fast.  Follow Len's advice and check out track plans on variations of the 4 x 8.  Sadly, even MR continues to push the 4 x 8, especially around Christmas.

True, of course, but I suppose that's something that someone new to model railroading can get up and running fairly quickly, don't you think? People don't buy train sets--even good Bachmann sets--at Christmas with the expectation that they won't have their railroad running until Easter. Don't you think it's important for "newbies" to get something operating quickly so they don't lose interest?

Besides, if the "bug" bites 'em really good, after a few weeks of continuous loop running over the holidays, they can cut that 4 x 8 sheet of plywood into pieces and use it in the construction of a more sophisticated layout.

Incidentally, good point about how much space a 4 x 8 really takes up. Imagine how much more space would be required if someone followed the old, old suggestion of setting up on a ping-pong table!

[Doneldon]

Roger and J Bar-

You both make some excellent points. I firmly believe that a shelf layout is superior to the 4x8 in almost every case, but table layouts do have their place. If nothing else, they may be the only alternative to not having a layout at all. So let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

As J Bar points out, 4x8s get railroads running quickly and the plywood is reusable. Another advantage is that table layouts, or at least some table layouts, can be hoisted up to the rafters in the garage or basement or folded and stored when they need to be. Shelf layouts which are in the way are most likely to stay in the way. Sometimes a 4x8 is all a model rail can swing financially. Or maybe a modeler lives in an apartment which prohibits attaching anything to the walls. Also, there's a huge stock of 4x8 track plans which new modelers can consult so they don't agonize over an original one too long. Last, a table layout doesn't require any fancy carpentry skills as might be the case when building a shelf layout, things like providing enough rigid support and making sure adjacent pieces line up correctly and stay there.

Would I choose to build a 4x8 for myself? At this point in my life, no, but I've built them in earlier times. And the layout I recently built for my grandson is a 4x8 because that's what fits with his family's home and lifestyle.

                                                                                                                               -- D