Help with Sparks and Power Issues

[mirylad]

Hello all,
I just recently purchased my very first Williams engine set, the Amtrak Phase V Genesis A-A pair. I have heard many great things said about Williams diesels, so I finally took the plunge and decided to see for myself. However, from the moment I placed my powered engine on the rails, it has had some pretty severe issues, and I was hoping someone could help me out with a simple fix so that I don't have to contact service with my very first one.

When the engine runs, it flies, but a fierce amount of sparks fly from both center rail pickups, so much that I can smell the burning and the sparks cover across the entire track. If I reduce power on my transformer to zero and switch into neutral or reverse, all power will cut to the engine, though occasionally I will see the cab light flicker dimly. After this happens, if I bump the engine with my finger it will suddenly catch power and start going again, but with the sparks still flying out from under both of the third rail pickups.

I am running on O48 Lionel FasTrack with an 80-watt transformer. I tried thoroughly cleaning the track (all my other engines work perfectly with no sparks) and the rollers, and I oiled and greased all the recommended points on the engine, but this did not solve the issue. Any help from you fine folks would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

[phillyreading]

Have you cleaned the track with an alcohol based cleaner? Like either rubbing alcohol(90%) or ethanel alcohol, not the stuff you consume. Also clean the wheels on your engine, both inside and outside and the center rollers.
Also don't use steel wool or scrubby pads to clean any track, leaves little  particles that will be picked up in the gear area and cause a jam.

If you have used 3 in 1 oil or WD-40 that is your culprit! They are oil based and leave a greasy film, and don't conduct electricity properly. These need to be completely cleaned off if ever used!

Have you tried using something besides Fastrac to run your engine on?
What transformer do you have?
Hopefully you are not using a CW-80 by Lionel. If so try another transformer like an Atlas 80 watt or an MTH 100 watt; a Z-1000 by MTH works great with Williams.

Lee F.

[r0gruth]

I have a CW-80 that is just fine.There were problems with the early ones.

Do you have a friend that has a layout of any kind where you could try it on their track and transformer?

If not,I would first go back to where I bought it.If that is not possible contact Williams by Bachmann.

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

Check the contacts between sections of track for weak or dirty connections too.  They should be clean and make firm contact. Is this engine larger than the others?, track feed wires large enough? Check for hot rollers, hot and/or frayed wires, or something caught it them(spring tips too long?). Shorts can cause a heavy draw, which often heats rollers fast, but not always affecting motor performance.

[mirylad]

I have performed proper cleaning, lubrication, etc. on both the engine and the track, using a rag with 91% iso alcohol for cleaning and MTH oil/grease for lube. The rollers are staying on the center rail and rolling smoothly, and I cannot find any issue. However, I am going to try picking up a Z1000 transformer and see if that solves my issue, in case it really is the CW-80 model giving me troubles. I have two of them, both newer make after Lionel fixed the issues with the original run (their production dates are in 2011), and the engine behaves identically under both (I even swapped out the terminal section and wires to be safe). If that does not work, the dealer has agreed to swap out for a new engine at the next train show.

[phillyreading]

Have you tried another transformer besides the CW-80?
I have only used a CW-80 a few times at a friends house, don't own one, so I don't know if that would be your problem.

Have you tried running your Williams engine on tubular track like with 031 or 042 curves? You might be surprised! Try using regular track and see what happens as well.
I had elctrical issues with Fastrac in the past and had to trade it off for an engine I wanted plus a few dollars.
My two cents on Fastrac; it is over-rated!!!

Lee F.

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

I have yet to find a roadbed track I like.
I go with "totally tubular man"

This sparking may also decrease or go away after it breaks in, it has for me on other engines in the past, but I have no idea why, but my Virginian rectifier by another co. did that when new, it slowly went away. I had forgot till tonight.

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

I have performed proper cleaning, lubrication, etc. on both the engine and the track, using a rag with 91% iso alcohol for cleaning and MTH oil/grease for lube. The rollers are staying on the center rail and rolling smoothly, and I cannot find any issue. However, I am going to try picking up a Z1000 transformer and see if that solves my issue, in case it really is the CW-80 model giving me troubles. I have two of them, both newer make after Lionel fixed the issues with the original run (their production dates are in 2011), and the engine behaves identically under both (I even swapped out the terminal section and wires to be safe). If that does not work, the dealer has agreed to swap out for a new engine at the next train show.

You aren't lubing the track are you, I was recently told by an ho guy many lube the ho brass rails too. In my experience oil on three rail track only causes traction or power issues.

[mirylad]

Apparently the problem was that the Genesis does not play well with the CW-80 transformer. I picked up a Z-1000 and now it runs smoothly.

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

From what I hear those CWs can be fickle themselves and cause some trains to "get angry".
Ive got a nice American Flyer 18b that has actually toasted a couple modern train boards, and triggers options at random. The older trains love being pushed by it, but I have been unable to figure out exactly what is going on, as far as finding what the exact cause of this is.  Glad you figured your problem out.

[phillyreading]

Apparently the problem was that the Genesis does not play well with the CW-80 transformer. I picked up a Z-1000 and now it runs smoothly.

Glad to hear that you found the problem.
I am not a fan of the CW-80 transformer, it doesn't work with MTH engines with PS-2.

I use the older ZW by Lionel with my Williams and have no problems, except that it doesn't do the bell feature on the  True Blast-2 units.

Lee F.

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

Apparently the problem was that the Genesis does not play well with the CW-80 transformer. I picked up a Z-1000 and now it runs smoothly.

Glad to hear that you found the problem.
I am not a fan of the CW-80 transformer, it doesn't work with MTH engines with PS-2.

I use the older ZW by Lionel with my Williams and have no problems, except that it doesn't do the bell feature on the  True Blast-2 units.

Lee F.

Lee I imagine you know already but reversing your leads will get you a bell, but you lose the horn/whistle.
Also I've read that with the CW and MTH you have to lay a specific type of diode across the rails, and set the loco on it  before power up. I don't have the diode number, but could maybe come up with it if asked to. From what I understand this diode is normally only available in bulk. A special shotskey or zener, not sure which.

[phillyreading]

Lee I imagine you know already but reversing your leads will get you a bell, but you lose the horn/whistle.
Also I've read that with the CW and MTH you have to lay a specific type of diode across the rails, and set the loco on it  before power up. I don't have the diode number, but could maybe come up with it if asked to. From what I understand this diode is normally only available in bulk. A special shotskey or zener, not sure which.
[/quote]

I know about reversing the leads to the track or adding a Lionel whistle button in reverse wiring as well.

May I ask where you have read about the MTH Z-1000 needing anything extra?
I am using a Z-1000 with my Williams, before Bachmann, with True Blast 2 and have no problem with the transformer.
Whoever said that you need a special electronic part with an MTH transformer is telling you a lie!! I use my Z-1000 as is with my Williams engines.

Lee F.

[Joe Satnik]

Dear All,

It could be a Transient Voltage Suppressor (TVS) (between the center and outer rail terminals of the lock-on) that we are thinking about here. 

It is a safety device that helps to get rid of voltage spikes on the track, which could harm the loco's electronics. 

The best place for a TVS though, would be right on each loco's circuit board where the track power comes in.

A single TVS at the lock-on is much, much better than not having one, though.

For more discussion, including which specific voltage TVS to buy, search on "satnik tvs".   

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik