Same brand locos but different speeds...and some ramble about my plans

[Inder]

Hello guys,

Here I am again with different issues.  Mind you this is stuff I did not run accross while reading back on all the posts. 

Before anyone gets upset about me inquiring about products from another brand let me tell you that I am a proud owner of over 10 Bachmann locomotives which I like very much.  (Mostly steam but I do own a diesel) SD-45.  Especially my 2-8-0s (3) consolidation.  I like my 2-6-6-2s (3) although 2 are going back for issues. I like them mainly for how menacing they look although in all reality my consolidation can pull way more and better.  I have others too...
Anyway,

I need your help with this problem.  I hope you guys find the time to drop in and enlighten me with your wisdom.

I just purchased a Kato GE AC4400CW on ebay and it's used.
It runs great at slow and fast speeds.  smooothhhhhhhh

I also purchased a  Kato GE C44-9W NEW on ebay as well.

The problem is, I'm currently running a DC system but the locomotives run at different speeds. The C44-9W is significantly faster than the AC4400.

I don't see anything wrong with the slower loco and it actually runs very smooth even at a very slow speed. The only thing I can think of is that the motor might be a different production.   Their motors begin to turn at a different voltage and their speeds peak at different rates.  They both run butter  smooth and sound super clean.  I can hear the brass wheels spinning perfect.

Taken apart they seem to be manufactured around the same period, very current.   The chassis is similar, the motor and couplings all identical and the LED circuit is identical except  for on one of them the light is white on the other loco the LED emits amber light.
I don't think they're geared different and I don't see any articles about these machines having different gear configurations.
The contacts look clean and they run super smooth and super quiet.
I guess I could try replacing the motor?  It is the only thing I can think of.

I guess I should buy identical machines when I plan to run them together.
This perhaps is a lesson learned?
The gears inside seem identical so I don't see how it would be geard differently I just think one motor is not as efficient as the other and not necessarily because it's used but perhaps it's a different generation.\
Manufactured differently... 

So this is where I need you guys' expertise the most.  On the stuff I wrote below that's just me telling you where I stand and how I see myself evolving with this hobby and how my layout will fall in place... a few months down the line.



See like I said before,  I'm new at this so there are steps I may not follow in order.  When purchasing locomotives.   I currently own 3 conolidations, 3 spectrum 2-6-6-4, and a couple of the Bachmann standard 4-8-4's I believe.
a few 0-6-0 switchers.  about 7 Power Metal locos that are fairly impressive in quality.   That's all steam because I love that era.

But in my layout I wanted to incorporate a modern section where you have Alcos and GEs and others running around hauling cars.  Mostly UP and some Santa Fe.  I have plenty of rolling stock for all this. 
I will stick to Crapido couplers which is what most of the used rolling stock came with.  The diesels all have knuckle so some cars are hybrid.
later on I will experience with magnetic couplers.


So I have enough trains to get this whole layout started and I have some ideas in my head - I'm definitely going with DCC and I will have a turn table and the yard's gonna be busy as heck.


Thanks for your input.

[brokemoto]

I know of two manufacturers that have forums:   this one and Atlas.  Both are good about allowing us to discuss products made by other manufacturers.  People here and on the other board have started and contributed to topics that are strictly about something sold by another manufacturer.  The other manufacturer will permit discussion of almost anything that has to do with trains; I suspect that this one would do the same.

On your question, do not be alarmed.  In many cases, the models of the same prototype by the same manufacturer will run at different speeds, so it is no surprise that two models of different prototypes might run at different speeds.  I could not count the number of complaints that I have read from people who bought an A-B set of cab-type diesels where the A and the B run at markedly different speeds.  This problem seems to plague Kato, especially.

DCC does eliimnate this problem.

Atlas seems to be the best for consistency of running.

In the cases of different prototypes, sometimes the gearing is different.  This may be the case for your Kato. 

The B-mann SPECTRUM 2-8-0 is one of the best steam locomotives out there.  The Kato mikado is also one of the best.  Some say it is the vest and it is the standard to which all N scale steam is popullarly compared.  I rank the two about the same, as the B-mann is better in certain aspects than the Kato, and, conversely, the Kato excells in certain attributes where the B-mann falls short.

With some tinkering and swapping of parts (especially the tenders), the Model Powers can be made into good locomotives.

Get away from the Rapido couplers as soon as you can; most manufacturers are getting or have gotten away from them.  Check the MT website for conversions.

[Inder]

Thanks for your help Brakemoto.

I figured it would most likely be okay to inquire about a model from another brand but wasn't entirely sure.
Although I'm not really happy with the fact that different speeds is a common thing among models from the same manufacturer.  At least I'm relieved that there isn't something wrong with one of my locomotives and therefore I own't waste my time nor money swapping motors.  I will eventually buy a DCC system.

As far as the rapido couplers go.  I bought some couplers at my LHS.  I threw away the packaging so I don't know the brand but they require you to drill into the model and it comes with a little screw.  I wasn't too thrilled about this.
My bachmann locomotives use couplers that have a little square plastic cap that clips in .  I'm sure I can find couplers that will use that system.  I can probably get them from bachmann.
You mention a "MT" website.  I'm not sure I know what website that is.

[Franz T]

http://www.micro-trains.com

[Inder]

Thank you for the tip.
I gotta be careful when I order since they have so many choices but they look great.

What do you think of magnetic couplers? 
I was thinking if I had certain trains.  I could have a magnetic coupler here and there on a leading rolling stock car to uncouple it from the loco.

Mind you, I'm completely new to this hobby.  Tomorrow I will be going to my first railroad club meeting.  I was invited so that should be cool.

[Franz T]

MicroTrains couplers are magnetic. so if you replace your crapidos with MT's, ALL your couplers will be magnetic ; however, they will require a uncoupling magnet at strategic locations... (you can ask at the club meeting, I,m sure they will be glad to help you. BTW, MicroTrains couplers are called Kadee's in HorriblyOversized scale )
As to finding the right coupler, there is a series of conversion charts on MT's website; point to the "HOME" menu and you will find "CONVERSIONS" about 2/3 of the way down. Click on that and you will find a list of manufacturers. Download the ones you are interested in, they are in spreadsheet format..

HTH

Franz T

[Inder]

Hey thanks.

Wow, well it seems like they couldn't have made it easier.  Yeah I guess crapidos is a 70's legacy?  That's as good as couplers could be back in the day.  Although looking at some rolling stock from that era, they could do a decent job at molding plastic.  But I guess they had their limitations when it came to very minute things.

I gotta tell you.  70% of my fleet has crapidos.  Even all the spectrum locomotives I bought recently have crapidos on the tender side.  They must be like last year's models or something.  None of the Kato stuff I bought has crapidos.

[Franz T]

They (Rapidos) were de-facto standard for a long time. MicroTrains held the patent on magnetic knuckle couplers, when that patent expired, the MT clones started to appear (Accumate, etc.) In the last few years most,but not all, manufacturers have changed to MT's or their clones.Some, like Bachmann, have gone to so-called "dummy couplers", which will mate with MT's, but will not uncouple magnetically...
I started converting my existing fleet about 8 years ago, and from then on, any new purchase got changed over before it went on the test track. It can be a major expense (I have approx 120 locos and 400+ cars) You can buy 10 packs of truck with couplers for about 30 bucks. Or you can keep your existing trucks; merely trim off the old coupler and its pocket and body mount 1015's. Body mounting gives you better performance, especially when backing. Plus you can buy a 10pair bulk pack of 1015's for about 10 bucks. (MT for some strange reason has changed their catalog numbers, I don't know what the new number is, since I bought about 20packs when a Hobby Store in Atlanta closed, so I haven't had to look for them in the last few years  but everybody still calls them 1015's.
Be advised, the 10pack is in kit form, Micro Trains sell aan assembly jig which is helpful in retaining your sanity; at this point I can assemble a coupler in about 3 minutes and I found I actually enjoy it

HTH

Franz T

PS, there are some specialized applications, for example the Spectrum 2-8-0 takes a 2004 and most other Bachmann a 1032 or 1033, which comes complete with a coupler pocket to snap in place of the original. 

[Inder]

Lots of info.
I will have to read that several times.  Thanks.
I almost want to see pictures of some of your body mounted couplers.  Just so I get an idea on how to do it.  I just started this hobby and I already have about 20 locomotives so I can see how easily it can escalate to a large number but 120 WOW that's a chunk of locomotives.
What do you have mostly of?  What era brand and model?

I like the golden period of locomotives where the american 4-4-0 and then the consolidation 2-8-0 were popular.  I'm not real crazy about the streamlined locos like the J style where everything needed to look like space ships in that era.  I also don't like the early era of diesels which interestingly enough, in my opinion look more modern than contemporary locomotives again with theri streamlined space era look.

So I have a lot of consolidations, some 2-6-6-2's 'cause they're cool.  Some american 4-4-0's and then I have lots of diesels like the SD90, AC4400 and so forth.  Some late 60's like the Alco 628's.

[Franz T]

I like transition and 1st generation diesels. (E-Units, FA's, PA's, BL2's, Sharknoses - I'm waiting for someone to make a Centipede ) Bunch of Steamers - Consols, Light Montains, Pacifics, Articulated.. Mostly Eastern Roads..
No, it doesn't take long to accumulate a collection. Most of the steam is Spectrum, a few Model Powers and Proto Heritage. And of course a Two Truck Shay from Atlas..Don't really have any place to run it, but I had to have one

[Inder]

Franz,

I just saw models of the centipedes for the first time.  I had only seen them online.  They had a bunch of O scale centipedes on display.  Some had the
Santa Fe scheme and some had Union Pacific.  They loocked cool.
I'm sure you could make your own if you really wanted to.

Now how were the centipedes better than a bunch of locomotives coupled together like they do now or like they did in the steam era?

[Franz T]

Keep in mind this was in the early era of dieselization. There was a lot of experimenting going on.Some experiments were successful, some were not. The centipede obviously belongs in the latter group. Also, EMD, being part of GM, adopted the automobile standard model approach. (Here's what we make, how many do you want? ) which resulted in the benefits of standardization of parts.
Baldwin, and also Alco, on the other hand, build diesels the same way they build steam - to customer specs. the results were some interesting oddball locomotives, poor parts interchangeability and maintenance headaches for the railroads.
The reasons for more powerful single-unit diesels were simple: Labor unions. If you couple four GP's together, the unions could demand four crews.. The first F-units were permanently drawbar connected for precisely this reason. Remember, for the longest time, Union Rules called for a stoker on diesels....

[Inder]

Wow,
What would the stoker do on a diesel?  Just sit around milking the company?
What about on Cab forward steam engines?  Didn't those have the coal fed mechanically with a pipe and a screw type thing called a ugle or ogul or something like that?  My point is, that even those locomotives probably had no need for a stoker.  Well maybe to turn that thing on or off or whatever.

Nonetheless, the need for a stoker was diminishing even in the steam era.  I am shocked to hear that unions demanded a stoker position on diesel locomotives. 

[Franz T]

A mechanical stoker used an "auger". Cab forwards were oil-fired, as were most western steam locomotives. The fireman was still needed, however, to maintain the water level in the boiler among other things (very nasty things can happen if the water level drops too low...very, very nasty things.......)