Braided vs Solid Wire for layout's

[Doneldon]

Steve, if the thermostat is for a typical gas or oil heat system, the wires are carrying low voltage.  If we are talking about a thermostat for an electric heating system, like electric baseboards, heavy duty, 220 volts that kill.
Do you find the stranded wire cheaper at an automotive place than at Radio Shack?

jb-

Actually, the thermostat wires in an electric heating system is low voltage. Only the conductors
for the power to the heating wires is 220 volts. (Small ones may use 110 volts.) That's why the
stat wires are small gauge and run through the walls without physical protection.
                                                                                                                         -- D

[jbrock27]

Not in my house Doc, which was built with electric baseboard heat (later converted to hot water).  The electric thermostats have 12 gauge Romex running to and from them and on any of the electric thermostats I still have left (as time has moved on I have taken them out and patched the hole in the sheetrock) it clearly states on the thermostat "CAUTION High Voltage".
I do not think it is referring to the 24 volts that operate the traditional style "mercury switch" or now programable/digital switches that run hot water or steam heating systems. 

[steve turner]

The 220 volt line voltage baseboard heaters have high voltage themostats with heavy  stranded wire. I just changed mine all out to digital and the same . i dare say a 110 volt heater will also have heavy wire. Heavy wire as your basically breaking one wire to heater to inplant thermostat................the other straight through to heater. Of course the wire has tobe same or higher gauge as the 14 or 12 gauge 220 volt wire. Not an electrician dont know the criterior for 12 or 14 gauge,We are getting off track hear but the point is stranded wire more common in home and around home than solid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,its more serviceable lets say for many applications.Steve....................if you are a solid guy thats great.............if you are stranded you are more than solid HA!

[jbrock27]

I agree with you Steve, this is definitely off the topic.

But, I have to disagree with your statement on stranded wire being more prevalent for home use wiring.  At least from my perspective of my state within the U.S. , it is the other way around, solid copper wire is used almost exclusively.   There was a time during the 1960s aluminum wire was permitted in the States but then the code changed to copper wiring.  Builders liked the aluminum bc it was cheaper than copper.  I lived in house with aluminum wiring-never a problem.  They changed the code bc it was found the aluminum can work it's way loose from the screws that hold it down on switches, outlets, etc.  I am laughing at all these posts that express concern of "nicking" solid wire and running the risk it breaks-you know how much a 12 or 14 gauge solid copper wire can get dinged and nicked and not break?  It gets stomped and crushed when screwing it down onto a switch or outlet and doesn't break, one reason why it is used for this purpose.

[steve turner]

What i meant by stranded wire use in home was not the mains use of solid but the use of stranded used in everything else in the home. Yes you can screw down and stomp on solid but i tell you if its nicked or cut with strippers or a knife it will break off with little stress. It stands to reason a small gauge of pretty much any thing solid when nicked will snap at the nick point. A nick in solid copper wire is its weakest link. No nick no cut you bend it which ever way you like...............its even worse with smaller gauge cppoer wire. Time to move on. Steve........BC

[jbrock27]

Thanks for clarifying Steve.  I am sorry for any confusion on my part.

I agree with you 100% that nicking small gauge solid wire leads to break offs and they should be avoided.  I successfully use both stranded and solid small gauge wire on my layout.  I find that solid telephone wire works great for switches.  I have not had the need to use as heavy a gauge as 14 or 12.  I think part of preventing "nicks" from occurring, is using the right tool for the right job to strip the insulation off the wires; either with a wire stripper that is preset for many gauges or the kind that is adjustable to wire you want to strip by moving the screw in the middle of the tool.  I don't consider a knife to be the right tool to strip wire.
For an experiment, I took some 12 gauge solid copper wire I have and nicked it up and then tried to bend it into a question mark like you would to mount it under a screw or bolt.  It did not break at the nick.  This tells me the heavier gauge copper solid wire is more tolerant of nicking than smaller gauge.

Moving forward, do me the favor and refrain from telling me it is "Time to move on"; it comes across to me as being dismissive and if it was intended that way, I don't appreciate it.  Have a good weekend!

[Doneldon]

Not in my house Doc, which was built with electric baseboard heat (later converted to hot water).  The electric thermostats have 12 gauge Romex running to and from them and on any of the electric thermostats I still have left (as time has moved on I have taken them out and patched the hole in the sheetrock) it clearly states on the thermostat "CAUTION High Voltage".
I do not think it is referring to the 24 volts that operate the traditional style "mercury switch" or now programable/digital switches that run hot water or steam heating systems. 

jb-

I'm sure you are correct that the warning doesn't refer to 24 v service. But I wonder if the 220 v stats are from years gone by. I put a 220 v baseboard heater in a three-season porch to keep it useful through the winter and it had a conventional stat running on low voltage bell wire.
                                                                                   -- D

[Doneldon]

Steve and jb-

I've never seen any house wiring with stranded wire except some very old knob-and-tube stuff in a very old house I rented while I was a poor graduate student. I've lived in and worked on the three houses I've owned since then, and the one my wife owned when we got married, and I've never seen any stranded wire in any of them. Well, except for the wiring in things like chandeliers and bath fans and the like, but they aren't really part of the house wiring.

I've also never seen a piece of solid wire break, despite having done new work, rewiring and repairs over the years. I've used some pretty good force on the wires at times, too, like when stuffing them back in a box.

I also have never worked with aluminum house wiring. I do know that code where I live requires either that new copper ends be put on the aluminum or that special receptacles and switches with toothed connectors be used. It's really too bad that the aluminum wire didn't work out; it would be considerably cheaper than copper at today's prices as well as lighter and easier to work with. That's as long as you don't have to solder it, of course.
                                                                                                                                                 -- D

[jbrock27]

You are correct Doc, these electric thermostats I am referring to at my current house are not the newest kind.  They are from 1985.
I hear you on the aluminum wiring.  Like I said, in the 15 years or so that I lived in my folks house that had it, it was never a problem or safety issue.  Of course when ever something needing to be added or worked on, it was copper wiring that we used.

[jerryl]

Hi Everyone: I was just wondering what you guy's used on your layouts.... I am @ the point where I am ready to wire-up all my industry's all my sideing tracks are in... I decided to use Solid 12-Gauge wire over the Braded wire I feel it will be easer when soldering up my track lead's to the main track wire.. What do you guy's think....

12 gauge will work but is more than overkill.  12 gauge will carry 20 amps at 120 volts...so unless you have 600 locos running at stall current it's TOO much.

[Doneldon]

jerryl-

Twelve gauge will arry 220 at 20 v!

                                             -- D

[rogertra]

jerryl-

Twelve gauge will arry 220 at 20 v!

                                             -- D

??

Do you mean "12 gauge will carry 220 at 20 Amps" or what because your sentence above makes no sense?

If you do mean "12 gauge will carry 220 at 20 amps"  then that is incorrect.  You need 10 gauge to carry 220 at 20 Amps.

[RAM]

Correct me if I am wrong.  In the U.S. we don't really have 220 volts.  we use two 110 volt lines added together to get 220 volts.  What I am thinking is lower voltage and higher amp mean larger wire.  I know over seas they have real 220 volts and use smaller wire.

[rogertra]

Correct me if I am wrong.  In the U.S. we don't really have 220 volts.  we use two 110 volt lines added together to get 220 volts.  What I am thinking is lower voltage and higher amp mean larger wire.  I know over seas they have real 220 volts and use smaller wire.

Based on the above, I would suggest that you do not tamper with your house wiring.  :-)

Call an electrician.

[Doneldon]

roger-

Pardon my stiky "c" key but the code in my ommunity doesn't require 10 ga wire for 220
volts. Is it just me, and possibly RAM, or are you feeling especially antagonistic today?

                                                                                                            -- D