Braided vs Solid Wire for layout's

[CNE Runner]

I'd like to address a couple of statements made during the last few posts.
   - Short of living in an earthquake-prone location (or war zone), the issue of solid core Romex wire breaking is not an issue. Buss wires do not flex. Buss wires (especially Romex) should be adequately supported to the layout as they are relatively heavy. I will go one step further and say that all wire (excepting those of a very short length) require support.
   - The use of 12-gauge Romex (or whatever) wire is definitely overkill for a current load of <18 v.D.C. I like the robust nature of 12-gauge wire (for busses) and the easy availability of this material. If you have a source of smaller gauge wire, that is appropriate, use it. How thin? Take a look at the thin nichrome wire that connects to a Peco Electrofog turnout...that has to handle track voltage - just like a feeder. Do keep in mind, the smaller the gauge the greater the resistance. That thin frog feeder wire is only 'feeding' one frog...a buss wire may feed an entire layout (or a large block).
   - I use bell wire for my track feeders; angling one end and soldering it against the side of the rail away from the 'audience'. On my test board (where ideas and track-related skills are developed), I have tried the technique wherein one end of the solid core wire is flattened and cut to roughly the same profile as a track spike. I then insert the wire (from the top) until the 'head' of the 'spike' rests against the rail. One then solders this to the web of the rail. After painting, I usually can't find the darn thing again without very careful searching. Just an idea.
   - The use of stranded core wire is an absolute necessity in those conditions were movement occurs. Such places may be the wire running between the buss and the controller. I terminate my busses with terminal connectors at two bolts - screwed into a supporting member of the layout train board. These bolts have three flat washers and three nuts...sandwiching the buss wire and the controller feed wire together. This allows me to easily remove the controller wires...and, since I have a supply of nuts, washers and bolts is a cheap way of solving a problem. In the past, I have connected wires, in such an application, with: old computer wire connections (assuming you have the male and female ends), or a plug & socket.

I didn't mean to ramble on...there are lots of ways to solve a problem. You have to determine what works best for you.

Ray

[jbrock27]

Thank you Rich and Ray.

[Brian1975]

Thank's for that info Ray....

[CNE Runner]

You are entirely welcome Brian. Good luck with your layout.

Ray

[Brian1975]

UPDATE : Removed all the ROMEX house wire from hole layout.. Ran NEW 12-Gauge Braided RED & Black & both wire's are separated 3 - 4 inches apart so I don't have a possibility of interference with my NCE DCC system.... My friend started wiring the leads in my Yard Area... I now see WHY Braided Wire is used & it shows it's a heck of allot more easier to work with.. I am glad I took everyones advice with the braided wire... My Friend said Friday he'll start wiring main layout & if he gets all that done he'll wire up my 2 - UTP Plug connector's... GUYS I REALLY DO APREACTATE THE TIPS IT REALLY HELPED ME OUT THANKS

[Doneldon]

Brian-

Your electrical friend is seriously mistaken. Solid wire is excellent for busses although it's a little more difficult to use for feeders unless it's quite small gauge, like 20 ga or smaller. I've never heard anything about Romex being breakable and I must say that I don't believe that at all. The National Electrical Code, and virtually all of the local codes I've heard of, approve of Romex for house wiring. Now the whole purpose of the codes is ensuring safety, meaning no shorts, no electrocutions and no fires. Breakable wires would directly violate this intent. Additionally, house wiring carries 110 volts or 120 volts at comparatively large amperages like 15 or 20 amps. Our model railroads, regardless of gauge or type of power (AC, DC, DCC) use much smaller voltages at much smaller amperages. So the idea that Romex is a bad choice is, frankly, ludicrous. The only thing wrong with 12 ga Romex is that it is much larger, stiffer and more expensive that it needs to be. Fourteen gauge Romex is more than adequate for anything less than a monster layout running high current levels like "O" or large scale.

I hope you didn't need much of the 12 ga stranded wire. One could easily wire a whole large layout with appropriate wires for a fraction of what a 12 ga stranded buss would cost. It was very nice of your friend to help you, but he did cost you some extra cash for the nonsensical materials.
                                                                                                                     -- D

[steve turner]

My buddy says.............its your railroad do what you like!. What you feel is best for you. I use 14 gauge stranded for main buss and 18 gauge stranded for feeders. The feeders are twisted tight L shaped tined and soldered to side of rails..............i use code 100 no issues, I guess code of rail maybe part of the equation for size of feeders, I use suitcase connectors with feeders every leg of a switch and one to every section of flex track and all joiners soldered, I guess with a feeder on every section of flex really means you dont need to solder joiners but believe me they do move over time. Yards and industrial areas with many tracks i run a feeder from the Buss to terminal strips then wire from terminal strips to the tracks all in close proximity to each other................keeps it neat and its easy on the eye and orderly for trouble shooting if need be plus cuts down on a jungle of wires and connectors.A must for soldering and good flow especially sodering feeders is a bottle of Rosin Flux fluid...................electrical solder on its own in my mind does not flow or run quick enough. Soldering is fun ,easy and in terms of  wire its rewarding with extra flux brushed on.When i use suitcase connectors i run the feeder about 1/2 inche through the connector at the dead end end of connector and use a meter to check for continuity to the rail making sure i have connection.So one leg of meter attached to rails using a length of wire to reach and the other leg touching the wire protruding the end of the suitcase connector.Jury is out on suitcase connectors but if you use correct size correct wire and crimp correctly you should have no issues. If you are DCC do the quarter test as you feeder and check your breaker on command is cutting out................if not add more feeders.In terms of stranded vs solid...........solid harder to work with, gets hard over time and if nicked will snap.............if removing insulation for feeders to attach to a solid buss wire and you nick the wire for sure it will break. If need be stranded wire is easier to twist and join.Stranded wire run nicer and easier to staple up or fasten up Iuse the nylon screw on clips that come in various sized wire, they slip over the wire.Obviously solid wire is fine in its right place but all in all stranded i think a better or wiser choice for what we use it for. In terms of cost its not a huge layout compared to everything else on the layout so get the right wire not whats on deal. Remember the wireing is the lifeline of your layout, take your time do it correctly.Steve

[jbrock27]

Good tips Steve!  Thank you.

[Len]

If it's going to move on a regular basis, even a little bit, use stranded conductor. If it's going to be installed and stay in place under the table, solid conductor is fine.

The problem with solid conductor is using it in places where it has to bend, e.g., inside a control panel with a hinged lid. Solid wire has a nasty habit of breaking inside the insulator after being bent one too many times. Like a paper clip that's bent back and forth.

And strictly speaking, braided wire is the stuff used for 'Solder Wick', ground straps, and the shield around coax cable.

Len

[electrical whiz kid]

Doneldon;
I personally do not care if you use bobby pins and guitar strings for conductors; you use whatever grabs you.  The writer (Brian)  tossed out for an opinion, and he got some, so what is your problem here?  I use #12THHN stranded wire.  Big Deal!  It is my choice.  Ten guys will use twn different methods and all manner of material.  You want to shoot stuff down?  Go to the skeet range.  I will probably get tossed off this forum for this, but that is my say.  Ciao.
Rich C.   

[Brian1975]

Hi everyone.. I asked my Friend WHY we can't use the ROMEX wire he said ROMEX is just harder to work with " NOT that it couldn't be used " he just perfur es the wire we just ran for "reasons that Brad ed it's more flexible & the fact if SOLID WIRE BREAKS you have more of a problem to fix it " I can see his point there.. & he said he's always used braided on his 2 layout's between 2 houses & has never had a problem with the Braided Wire...

[steve turner]

Think about it house wire is put into place and left.................even in a electrical box a novice has a hard time working with it. Ever notice how hard the wire has become over time when you have to change a plug or switch. Whats easier to nick and break a single strand or multiple strands?. Would you rather work with stiff wire or plyable wire?Big question is how you tie into your buss..............chances are out of all the feeders your going to splice into your solid wire buss you are  going to nick the wire sometime when removing the insulation. A nick in solid wire results in it breaking...................note when stripping solid house wire when attaching to plugin or switch if the strippers nick the wire and you bend the wire or twist on a connector the wire will snap.I have a small layout 17 by 13 wired with spools of automotive 14 gauge wire main buss and 18 gauge feeders.This wire is some of the softest cased wire i have seen ,very plyable and a joy to work with.I use 3m IDC or suitcase connectors with feeders every length of track and every leg of Peco insul frog switches. The room is a ground level room same as any other room in house................no temperature or humidity issues and rock solid bench work.It works great.If you like solid wire thats great but if starting out consider the fact that the benefits of stranded wire far outway solid wire. Nothing wrong with solid wire if used as intended but note even wall thermostats and most electrical items all have stranded wire for ease of use and less chance of breaking............i dont know how they compare on electrical carrying current.Like many aspects of the hobby we all have our own way of doing things......whatever works for you and your comfortable with.That being said please consider stranded wire on your layout if starting out.The spools of automotive wire are easy to work with and as i say very plyable and there is an aray of colors for you to keep things oprganised and seperated. Talking house wire i did run a loop around fasia of layout of 120 volt plugins attaching to legs..................this loop has a master switch with light.Everything layout is plugged into this loop of plug ins................when the lighted switch is off everything on layout is off.................nothing left on and peace of mind all is off and safe.The lighted switch really helps as a reminder. Steve

[jbrock27]

Steve, if the thermostat is for a typical gas or oil heat system, the wires are carrying low voltage.  If we are talking about a thermostat for an electric heating system, like electric baseboards, heavy duty, 220 volts that kill.
Do you find the stranded wire cheaper at an automotive place than at Radio Shack?

[steve turner]

Sorry about that i was thinking 220 volt baseboard heaters as i just changed mine.We only have source in Canada no Radio Shack. Limited selection and i like the larger spools of Automotive and color choices. Not sure on pricing in a small town i was just happy to find what i was needing.I think the brand was PICO. Seems to me if one thinks 18 gauge for feeders is a bit big nothing wrong with 20 gauge stranded. The key is to twist it tight shape it trim the... L ...  if necessary tin the wire shove down the hole beside tie and solder to rail. Scrape side of rail with file to clean and give bite and brush on a dab of rosin flux. I only use a 25 watt pencil soldering iron others use the big guns!Hold wire tight to rail with whatever you find handy.You will find wire as heated will mold to the rail...............you get the feel after a couple of goes. Sure you may melt a tie or deface them  once in a while but once painted and ballasted it fades away. So dont get your wires mixed up.Use old box car and mark R for red one side and b for black on the other.............follow it around and you wll not get your reds and blacks mixed up. For a neat power tester take aligator clip wire pair and cut in 1/2 or so, shorten them to say 6 to 8 inches add an LED and a resistor to one leg wrap with tape or shrink tubing and use that as a handy do i have power by cliping to rails. Use a 1k resistor. For DCC i i use a bi polar LED i think for straight Dc you could use regular LED. Such a handy tool to have and a trouble shooting tool for sure.I actually just had 3 days under the layout............stiff neck and a sore but!I tested as i went along especially the quarter test for instant shorting to the command.Remember dont loop the main buss back on itself.If your command is center of layout break the run into two like T..............the shortest route to your destination maybe a T type Buss...........so if a circle dont go al the way around in one direction split it down the middle and go left and right of the command.No looping back...........two dead ends.Steve

[jbrock27]

Thanks for all those tips.  Sadly, I can't take advantage of the DCC related ones since I run DC.  I do have a continuity tester specifically for that purpose so that will serve me well.  I have not yet had a chance to lay out new track and ballast.  But I have to say, I have to solder very few of my rail joiners.  I don't seem to have continuity issues like many cite.  I know it will be wise to do so before ballasting and painting.  I also use a 25Watt (Weller) soldering pencil.