Bachmann motors - pros & cons

[Vidshooter]

I have a number of Bachmann steamers. I think they are great value.

I have a 2-10-4 Santa Fe #5016 which has a Tsunami sound decoder.
I like running long trains and this engine used to slip on a grade, so I put some lead inside the engine to improve its hauling capacity.

I then found that on a grade with a big train the motor would slow down quite a lot.
Rather than slip, like other locos do, the motor would just grind to a stall if I let it.
Also, even though the loco was running really slowly, the Tsunami chuff still chuffed away at running speed.

So I deduced that Bachmann motors don't have as much torque as other motors, which I initially thought was a failing.

But then I installed a wheel cam and switch assembly, which synched the chuff to the wheel rotation.
I also removed some lead so the motor won't stall.
Now the overall effect is that the train slows right down until the motor almost stalls, then it slips. 
And you can hear the chuff slow right  down, then slip - just like the real ones.
So now I think the low torque motors are an advantage.

[RAM]

I think you got it right.  You never want a locomotive that will stall.  Yes there are better motors on the market than Bachmann's.

[richg]

Real railroads would double head or triple head. Have you tried that option?

Rich

[utdave]

  what i do when i like running long trains with the steamers .   ive built some powered box cars  from some old tyco cars and the chassie of a f-7  A or B from bachmann then i put them close to the front by the steamer   i can pull what you have in steam and get a longer train.     i have built 3 of these  so i really could build a 60 car train and do a 2 % with out any trouble .  i like to stay around 30 or less  it looks nicer on my style of layout and stay with one hidden helper box car loco.  you would never know i had extra power

Dave

[Doneldon]

Vid-

You had added too much weight which overtaxed the motor. You were spot on to remove some of it.
Just because there is a cubic millimeter of air inside a locomotive shell doesn't mean we should jam
it full of lead.

We've had some interesting threads about adding weight on this site. The general consensus seems to
be that it's awfully difficult to add too much weight. I'm not so sure about that, particularly since there
is a trend towards smaller, if smoother, motors. Wheel slip is actually a designed part of real locomotives
of all kinds; you might say that it's an aspect of the safety equipment.

                                                                                                             -- D

[jbrock27]

I have to concur with RAM's comment.

[electrical whiz kid]

John Allen used to weight his engines to the nines.  My thought and this may be making a mountain out of a molehill-would be to gear the engine down.  What this would di if it werewere within the abilities and pocketbooks of most of us, would be to take that torque and increase it by down-gearing.  If I have a lpong train, I will double-head it.  Makes more sense.  I believe there is a motor mfger called "Buhler".  I hav e heard some pretty good things about their motors.
Rich C.

[jward]

rich,

regearing certain locomotives was and still is within the budget and capabilities of most of us. ernst made and may still make a set of gears for athearn blue box locomotives which changes the gear ratio from 12:1 to 32:1. i have extensive experience with these as they were my standard motive power for many years.

my experience with low geared locomotives were that the low speed characteristicas were excellent. they made great yard locomotives. the increase in pulling power caused by the regearing was next to nothing. but since the motor was turning much faster at any given speed, you couldn't stall the motor in those beasts with a heavy train. and that's exactly what we want, stalling a dc motor causes all kind of problems including weakening the motor itself.

[nfmisso]

  what i do when i like running long trains with the steamers .   ive built some powered box cars  from some old tyco cars and the chassie of a f-7  A or B from bachmann then i put them close to the front by the steamer   i can pull what you have in steam and get a longer train.     i have built 3 of these  so i really could build a 60 car train and do a 2 % with out any trouble .  i like to stay around 30 or less  it looks nicer on my style of layout and stay with one hidden helper box car loco.  you would never know i had extra power

Dave

Another similar option are powered tenders.  There is a LOT of space in most big engine tenders.  Kato RSC-2 trucks are about the same wheelbase as many 6 wheel tender trucks.  With DCC, pretty easy to speed match, and with tender and locomotive wired together, there are lots of wheels for electrical pickup.

[utdave]

i do have one loco  i converted the tender to be powered   the steamer itself had the pancake motor   it died soon after,    so its been retired .  the tender is a long tender where i could fit a f-7 chassie under it .    it pulled 14 cars  verses 4 cars up a grade .   someday i will convert the tender to fit a modern steam design  loco.   the loco was a      4-8-4 burlington by bachman.  also the drive wheels and rods are messed up now also.    in the late fifties they would of scraped her.      ive been where you were thinking  and found the box car was easier to do and easy to move from one to another loco,   but this what makes a hobby interesting  is to make better and share ideas and be your own engineer to design and get those rusty wheels moving.           it would be nice if they did make tenders with power and the loco with powered wheels .         the ones i run i can make loco wheel slip on start ups which its neat.
Dave

[Desertdweller]

A nice thing about powering a tender is it is prototypical.  A lot of railroads used booster engines under their big locos, powering either the lead truck on the tender or the rear truck on the loco.

On a full-sized Diesel, if the wheels slip it will melt the rail.  If it stalls out and does not slip, it will burn out the traction motors.  This is why DC locomotives have short-time ratings on the ammeter.  Most DC locomotives cannot take maximum amperage draw for more than five minutes.

AC drive locos can handle this somewhat better.  Instead of measuring current draw with an ammeter, they show tractive effort.  Even this has its limits.  AC locomotives have a protective feature that will drop the motor's load before they damage themselves.

All this has lead to the development of improved sanding systems, to get the most effort to the rails short of stalling.

Les

[jward]

let us not forget the radar based wheelslip controls on modern locomotives either. i worked around sd80macs, and the wheelslip system compared ground speed with wheel speed. the maximum tractive effort is generated just as the wheels start to slip. on the sd80s, it is noticeable under a heavy load, you can actually see the wheels turn faster than the train is moving.

[ryeguyisme]

A nice thing about powering a tender is it is prototypical.  A lot of railroads used booster engines under their big locos, powering either the lead truck on the tender or the rear truck on the loco.

These were called franklin Boosters, I have a number of the little trinkets on my engines and continue to collect them.


NOW onto the topic at hand.

John Allen also made his trains usually and average of 10 to 12 cars per locomotive and he operated on 2% and 4% grades and his engines were Brass filled with lead weight for pulling power.

I personally tend to think along the lines of quality over quantity, I've focused my efforts on owning just enough rolling stock to make a consist of a few trains namely 13 cars maximum. Any more would look ridiculous on my road, it would seem like it didn't have a far distance to travel, and my layout is 21 feet long at the very moment under construction, but I would prefer if it took a while for my trains to reach their destination. To me my layout is humble  good for small trains. Plus if the trains were too long it would look weird. Like an engine chasing a caboose. And when the train got into the yard.... raise your hand anyone who has a 30+ car long yard? It can get overwhelming for operation to pull a freight train in.

Which is why at the local club I stopped pulling 20 car trains because on a point to point it was too time consuming and a headache to break it up when you have traffic on the main and in the yard waiting around for you to finish up. Overwhelming.

If you have a huge spaghetti bowl of track  where if takes 20 minutes to complete a circuit, maybe 20 cars might be appropriate. Its all in the Aesthetics.

Now realistically 2% grades were pretty steep on the prototypes. They Double headed, cut the train in half on a siding and double backed to pick it back up once the first half was over the hump. Or they used helpers.

I wouldn't expect a bachmann santa fe 2-10-4 to pull any more than 20 cars up a 2%. It doesn't have a gearbox and well the motor issues have been discussed. You can weigh down the engine with weights but that'll tax the motor. BUT also keep in mind that running that load it can't handle UP the hill will prove problematic going DOWN the hill, as it will still TAX the motor and create bucking problems  (not good for gear teeth)

Now one of my brass M-75 4-8-2's filled with lead and has a closed gearbox and a big powerful can sagami would pull 30 up that hill no sweat, but I am just satisfied with the 12 cars I put behind it and when I doublehead them maybe 20. It just looks better in my vision. But then again these engines cost me $350-$450 without DCC and sound and I bought them simply because I love their prototype. Brass isn't for everyone though.

THAT being said always keep in mind that this is YOUR railroad and what you like to do is up to you but it's always good to take care of your equipment to prevent damage from occurring.

I recently had my first car accident a few weeks ago, still in shock over it. And I used to be so proud that I never got into one. The thought that came into my mind after the accident is " you only think you're invincible until it happens to you."

I've burned out a dozen steam locomotives at least from over-exceeding their abilities, taught me a few things, it's good to learn from mistakes. Like here you're asking questions and talking about it and that shows responsibility for your stuff. My suggestions are just some advice.

that aside enjoy your trains