layout help

[crumsln]

We got my son the Mckinley Explorer set for Christmasand wanted to add an inner circle. The set came with 22"radius curves, i bought remote turnout left and right  switch track 44461 44462 and extra 22" radius track.  The outer circle uses 8 22"curves on each end and i thought the inner circle would use 6 22"curves but when i put it together its just not a clean fit almost seems forced,any help would be appreciated

[jward]

basic geometry comes into play here.....

22r curves won't fit inside each other unless you add a section of straight track to the outer loop.

22r curve sections are 22.5 degrees, 8 make a half circle. 1/2 22r curves are 11.25 degrees, 8 make a 90 degree curve.

the switches you have  have 18r curves of 30 degrees. this is standard for 18r curves.

the only way to make a full 180 degree curve using 18r and 22r is to make sure that the 18r and 22r curves each add up to a multiple of 45 degrees. an example would be to use a switch, a 1/2 18r section, 4 22r sections, another 1/2 18r section, and another switch.  it is probably easier to make the entire inner loop 18r which will easily fit inside the 22r curves.

[Joe Satnik]

Dear crumsln,


Download and learn how to use Anyrail.com.  It's easy and fun.

http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html

Free for the first 50 track pieces, which is enough to help resolve any "local" track fitting problem before you buy your track.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[Balrog21]

yep, Anyrail will solve your headaches! =)

[Doneldon]

crumsln-

You cannot put two circles the same size inside of one another. You must either go larger for the outer circle or smaller for the inner one. In the case of the McKinley Explorer you don't have a choice; You MUST make your outer circle larger. The ME cars are quite long and you won't be able to get them around 18" curves unless you tie them together with string. They will hit each other and derail on curves tighter than 22" radius. I don't know whether you can keep them on the track with alternating 18" and 22" radius curves but I wouldn't try it because it is, frankly, a Mickey Mouse way to run a railroad. Bachmann makes several curve radii broader than 22", including 26" and 33.25". I would look at using the 26" radius if I were you. I would also avoid the turnouts which are called "switches" in favor of the numbered turnouts. And I would go with a minimum of number six turnouts.

Also, I'm not sure how long you'll be happy watching your train with those long, graceful cars running around in tight circles. I urge you to see if you can stretch your layout a bit longer so you can really enjoy those lovely cars. (They are lovely on the inside, too. My wife and I rode on them a few years ago and it was a prime experience.)

By the way -- welcome to model railroading and this board. I promise you that you'll find aspects of this hobby which will hold your
attention for a long time. And you'll find it a great way to spend time with the kids. You'll be able to teach them a variety of skills and
you'll all have a fun time. Good luck with your McKinley Explorer and let us know how things are coming along.

                                                                                                                                                                      -- D

[Balrog21]

I had done the 18 and 22 inch combo and it works fine it makes a 20" radius, if you go that route start with the 22 then alternate pieces (22,18,22,18,22, etc) till the half circle is complete. Or as Donel said move up to 26 for the outsise and then 22 on the inside. Much better for the engines and rolling stock I moved up to this and don't have any problems at all with any of my rolling stock.
Bal

[Balrog21]

this layout has 22inch outer and 20" inner, and a 18" last inner.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v197/balrog21/Crossoverx2on4x8_zps642f20d9.jpg

[Jerrys HO]

crum
to give you an idea of how anyrail works and what doneldon suggest which I would agree with I have created a 22r and 26r with left and right cross overs. You need at least a 5x7 board to do this.



Jerry

[Joe Satnik]

Jerry,

Great job on the diagram.  Thanks.

What are the lengths of the small straights in the middle of the inside curves?

Couple of thoughts:

1. If you are going to have 5 ft. width, you could go up to 28" radius.  

2.  I see "S" curves being formed from the inner loop curve to crossover transitions on the left hand side.  It would help to put straights at least as long as your longest piece of rolling stock between the curves and the crossover on the left hand side.  The length of the layout would have to grow by the length of the added straights.  

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

Edit:  Added small straights question.

[Jerrys HO]

Joe

The small straights are the 3".  I just drew one up real quick to show the radius of the two Don was refering to and to give the OP an idea how anyrail can help. Adding in straights at both crossovers would indeed be nice but with the #6 crossover it should not be a factor as I have one crossover in almost an identical spot with no problems.
I had 28r in there but I took it out as it looked out of place with the 22r which the OP has already.

Jerry

[Doneldon]

Jerry-

The prefab crossovers and crossovers constructed of #6 turnouts will work okay without straights between them. That's not so with "switches." Also, one can put both crossovers on the same side of the layout while adding some straights between the turnouts, thus having additional protection from the dreaded S-curves. This will make the side tracks farther apart on one side than the other.

                                                                              -- D

[rbryce1]

There may (or may not) be a possibility of having a problem with the layout Jerry proposes, based on the length of the McKinley cars and the S-curve created with the #6 cross-over and the 22" curves.  I have 7 of these cars and they absolutely will not run on 18" curves, and are somewhat finicky on 22" curves.  They HATE S-curves without some straight track in the center of the S-curve.  I do have 22" spare track and a pair of these cross-overs at home in my future layout box of track, and I can try to set this arrangement up this evening and see if the cars hit each other and de-rail when passing thru the cross-over and immediately entering the 22" curve.

[jward]

jerry's [;an was drawn for the minimum space. 5x7. extending it to 5x8 wouls allow you to put some straignt track in the s curves. insert the straights into the inner loop just to the left of the crossovers on the plan as drawn. this will eliminate the s curve. don't forget to add at least the same length of straight to the outer loop as well.

[Jerrys HO]

Quote by me

I just drew one up real quick to show the radius of the two Don was refering to and to give the OP an idea how anyrail can help.[/quote
]
quote by Don

The prefab crossovers and crossovers constructed of #6 turnouts will work okay without straights between them. That's not so with "switches." Also, one can put both crossovers on the same side of the layout while adding some straights between the turnouts, thus having additional protection from the dreaded S-curves. This will make the side tracks farther apart on one side than the other.

Since  everyone did not understand the purpose of my drawing I revised it.



Jerry

[Jerrys HO]

Jeff as you were replying I was redoing. It was just meant to SHOW the OP what could be done with anyrail.

RB I run the McKinley's  thru my #6 crossovers into my 22r which are close together and have no problems. I do run at slower speeds though.
I don't own the McKinley's but my friend brings his over every now and then because my layout is a lot bigger than his. That does not mean it will work for everyone.

Jerry