Ok, who's thinking about O scale DCC aside from me?

[Burlington Route]

My bachmann On30 engines with DCC and sound are leaving my O scale engines kind of flat now...thanks bachmann{hahaha}, so this other guy and I, on another board, are chatting back and forth about higher amp DCC boards and what to control them with...I have my dynamis and he has his NCE{I think}. I'm wondering if I got the dynamis booster{5amp?} if this would run an O scale engine, on 3 rail, with a 5 or so amp DCC board with sounds, well enough.
For you who have a hard time thinking about "3 rail" as workable, remember, the 2 outside rails are common...think "1", with the center rail as the "other feed"...sort of the same thing as 2 rail, but with 3 rails.

Anyone ever try they're large scale...O/G...on a dynamis with the given engine running DCC?

Can it be done...has it been done...should it be done - yes..I think, so long as it won't burn out my dynamis{power output wise}.

Thru a search tonight under "O scale DCC" I spy that Weaver is supposed to be getting into O scale DCC...I can't see why O scale can't have DCC...even saw a place called procraft that has 3.5 amp Tsunami boards...same thing as HO boards but higher amp capability for the engine.

Bachman...anyone...?

[JerryB]

Do you know that the 3-rail engines are powered by AC?

That means you would have to change the motors to DC in order to use DCC. Possibly doable, but it is a major hurdle to conversion to DCC.

Just a first thought, but if you do the AC to DC motor conversion, why not also rebuild the locomotives to run on 2-rail power and eliminate the toy-like third rail?

For what it's worth, some manufacturer's locomotives are available in either 3-rail (AC) and 2-rail (DC) configurations.

Not trying to be an obstructionist or nay-sayer, as I too have an interest in combining 0n30 & 0-scale standard gauge equipment as an interchange on my developing layout.

Happy RRing,

Jerry

[Nathan]

While running one or two locomotives in O or large scale may work on a 5 amp booster, you really need to think in terms of a larger booster.

NCE, Lenz, CVP, and Zimo have 10 amp units and Digitrax has an 8 amp unit.

There have been decoders made for the 3 rail ac equipment.  You may need to read the manuals for the decoders that each manufacturer has at their web sites.

Nathan

[Burlington Route]

Jerry, "not all of them" my friend, and yeah, it did surprised me! I have an old lionel GP 9 with a single pulmore AC engine, and it runs on DC!...and AC as intended. I have 3 RMT engines that run on AC "or" DC- 1 beep and 2 beefs- each has twin can motors on chassis. My K-line 4-6-2 runs on AC or DC- has a can motor. My MTH 0-8-0 and Zephyr are proto2 and both run AC or DC/DCS{not DC only!} Seems the early lionel AC engines may not like DC power, but my engines aren't that old...talking issues with "pre-war stuff"...."post-war" is supposed to be ok with it. My 3 clockworks{marx/AF} just need a "hand"...lol.
I have 3 transformers to play with;
-lionel ZW-AC only{older than me and I'll be 48 tomorrow}
-bachmann EZ commander w/ channel 10 as anolog{DC}
-bachmann dynamis{DCC only}
I've honestly ran all the lionel, RMT and K-line engines off of the EZ for testing...in DC. Now, this was just for testing with the given stand alone engine, no cars or heavy loads.

[Burlington Route]

Nathan, one to two at a time would be all I'd ever do. We've got a carpet empire for now, but plans for an O/On30 layout are in the works...well, reworks.
Got a name or line on any of those AC motored DCC boards? I'd hate to the old lionel GP out of this though I've been told she'd be fine on DC only and has ran once in that way. I just haven't tried it all the time for lack of a high amp pack.

[Nathan]

Not being e 3 Rail person I do not have the information at hand.  I have seen them as I browsed various DCC manufactures web sites over the years.

You may need to e-mail some of the manufactures or the better known on line retailers.

Nathan

[Doneldon]

Anyone ever try they're large scale...O/G...on a dynamis with the given engine running DCC? Can it be done...has it been done...should it be done - yes..I think, so long as it won't burn out my dynamis{power output wise}. Thru a search tonight under "O scale DCC" I spy that Weaver is supposed to be getting into O scale DCC...I can't see why O scale can't have DCC...even saw a place called procraft that has 3.5 amp Tsunami boards...same thing as HO boards but higher amp capability for the engine.

Burl-

Large scale uses DC so adapting to DCC is the same as with HO except that the power needs are greater.

The 3.5 amp decoder is a large-scale decoder. I'm sure it would work with O-scale trains as long as they are running DC. Bachmann sold the larger decoders at one time. I don't know if they still do.

Last, five amps would run a couple of O locomotives but I would strongly suggest that you look at eight or ten amp boosters if you want anything beyond bare bones railroading. Remember that O is roughly (very roughly) twice the size of HO except that means in all three dimensions. Thus, O is really eight times the size of HO with weight proportions to match. That all spells much greater power consumption than just double HO demand.

                                                 -- D

[Joe Satnik]

Dear BR,

There is no reason why 3RO DCC shouldn't work, especially with the very efficient DC can motors in almost every 3RO model these days. 

The old Lionel motors were "universal" (either AC or DC), but drew a lot of current.   

Because of that high current draw, I would avoid trying to convert them.   

"Large Scale" DCC decoders should fit, especially if you remove the reverser board. 

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

Just for reference, AC volts, maximum amps drawn by any of my single engine post wars is 5amp peak at deadstart, sharply raised throttle to 12-14v, (pulling a heavy whistle tender), cast caboose, and 8 heavy automatic milk cars(13lbs total!) Its a Lionel 2046 Hudson. With slow starts, and at cruise speed, it pulls 1-2.5 amps. On newer stuff my dual can Kline GG1 pulls a 6amp peak, and 2-4amp under the same conditions (no tender=12lbs) making it the overall biggest juice-sucker I own.
BUT, does a universal motor use the same amps in ac or dc at the same voltage? I know it usally takes less dcv than ac volts to achieve X-speed but I never checked amprage draws in dc to compair.

[Burlington Route]

Just for reference, AC volts, maximum amps drawn by any of my single engine post wars is 5amp peak at deadstart, sharply raised throttle to 12-14v, (pulling a heavy whistle tender), cast caboose, and 8 heavy automatic milk cars(13lbs total!) Its a Lionel 2046 Hudson. With slow starts, and at cruise speed, it pulls 1-2.5 amps. On newer stuff my dual can Kline GG1 pulls a 6amp peak, and 2-4amp under the same conditions (no tender=12lbs) making it the overall biggest juice-sucker I own.
BUT, does a universal motor use the same amps in ac or dc at the same voltage? I know it usally takes less dcv than ac volts to achieve X-speed but I never checked amprage draws in dc to compair.

My problem is that I only have a DC rated amp gauge and no AC amp gauge...othewise I'd check the AC currnet pulling of my few AC engines.

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

Most ohm meters can read 10-20amps. A modern one may be a prudent purchase considering your thoughts of a dive into the world of solid state electronics. Allot can be learned with one. I have learned more about electronics playing with a very good stable meter with good leads than I did with a floating, crummy one. (No heavy classes, or much dcc knowledge here, just high school electrical 101, & 6yrs of on-the-job, self-taught pinball/vending/video game repair.) But even a cheaper meter is better than none. Some of the cheaper ones are 10a with no internal fuse. Add an in-line fuse fast blow 9a fuse, or 7-8a slowblow fuse, to a lead to protect the meter. If you wanna spend da big dough, buy Fluke. A milliamp option, diode check, transistor leg holes, internal fuses, and logic readers are nice. A sound(beep) is VERY useful for keeping your eyes on your work. The more ways you can make it beep the better. Make sure all peak reader and memory options are automatic! Values will float, often numbers change faster than you can see. If the button acts like a trigger for a "screen hold"(some sears) its useless for real peak readings it will really only "remember" what it was at when you pressed the button. Old school analog meters with sweeping-needles work better here, unless the digital peak read is automatic. Fine taper probes are almost a must, hopefully thinly insulated until 1/8 from a sharp tip. Multicolored alligator clip jumpers are your meters friends dont leave them behind. Clamping and hook-tip probes can help foil frustration by freeing your hands too.
...Or maybe you can just borrow your neighbors or something

[WTierce1]

O Scale Locomotives use AC to power them, but convert it to DC in the Sequence Reverse Unit to power the motor, the motor is DC. I actually installed a Digitrax High Amp Decoder in my Lionel Polar Express and a standard Bachmann Decoder in the tender for the whistle. I works great! I actually installed two light bulbs in the front for the marker and the head lights.

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

O Scale Locomotives use AC to power them, but convert it to DC in the Sequence Reverse Unit to power the motor, the motor is DC. I actually installed a Digitrax High Amp Decoder in my Lionel Polar Express and a standard Bachmann Decoder in the tender for the whistle. I works great! I actually installed two light bulbs in the front for the marker and the head lights.

Most POSTWAR engines are universal motors, my post war e-units do not rectify to dc(double checked just now at brushes). I think they reverse field/armature inputs. (or half rectified ac?) But readings on running motor brushes are ac volts, about half of acv at track(light and motor load?).

[stationmaster12]

Hey! Finally someone else thinking DCC for O gauge. I just got an MTH SD70ACe set with PS3 and guess what??? It runs DCC factory installed! I love it. I'm using my old Digitrax Zephyr to run it and it works great. I figured if I get a WBB loco and install a DCC decoder in place of the sequence board it should work. I just don't know what type of decoder to use. Also maybe a Sounctrax decoder and using the original speaker! An thoughts?!? 

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

I fear the bigger industry players have avoided making higher amp dcc products in the hopes the old stuff (some approaching 100yrs old) would die off, or be abandoned for newer stuff.  A new loco does make them much more profit than a dcc board, and profit does keep the doors open. I think as time goes on and conventional dies off more and more, we will eventually see more of what we need on the market. At lower overall costs too.