EZ Track Turnout causing problems

[tmiller]

I have been using the EZ Track turnouts for 2 years. For the most part they work most of the time. But I could spend a lot more time running trains if I didn't have to keep tweaking the turnouts to avoid derailments. Some locomotives work just fine, others keep derailing.

I recently purchased a Bachmann Spectrum K4 Pacific. I have one turnout that every time the K4 goes through the right hand turnout, the tenders leading truck appears to split the outside rail, and derail. Thinking that it may be a weight issue, I tried adding weights to the tender. That worked some of the time. I have filed the one moveable rail to make sure it is sitting tight against the outside rail. It looks good, but still splitting the rail. As I said, other steam locomotives don't seem to have this problem.

The only other solution would be to install a ground throw that would basically lock the turnout in position. I have done this with a few other turnouts and it solves the problem. But because of the location of this particular turnout, I have to rely on remote control. My guess is that the moveable rails are too loose and will sty tight against the outer rails. 

So, is my problem with the turnout or the tender? And does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can fix this problem?

Thanks for any help.

Ted

[bapguy]

Does this tender derail on  all turnouts or just this one? Check the guage of the wheel set on the tender. On some turn outs I have, I gently bent the end of the point rail inwards a bit to make sure it was tight against the rail. Also make sure the point rails are tightly held in place by the throw bar. If they're loose, this maybe causing your problem.  Joe

[Doneldon]

Ted-

I don't know because it sounds like your problem is mainly with a specific locomotive going through a specific turnout. It could be either or both.
However, it's easy to make a few adjustments which should solve at least some of the problem while making any residual problem clearer.

Your tender may have one or two problems. Partly, it could be weight, but not just overall weight. It may be that a little more weight near the
front would change not only the tender's total weight but the distribution of that weight. So ... add a little weight -- maybe half an ounce --
right in the front of the tender. The other possible, if not likely problem is the wiring between the loco and tender. Sometimes it's a little too
stiff so it exerts some side force against the front of the tender. At times, extra weight cures this; at other times you need to adjust the wires.
I've found that relatively horizontal wires directly from the loco to the tender are the most likely to cause trouble. Fixing this requires either
replacing the existing wires with purposely extra-flexible wire (a hassle) or making a vertical loop in the existing wire. This puts more play in the
wire as well as changing where the sideways forces are applied. You only need a quarter- to half-an-inch-long loop.

Then there's the turnout. It sounds like your tender's front wheel is picking the points. Curing that involves gentle filing on the end of the picked point so it fits snugly to the stock rail with nothing extending above the top of the stock rail. Some folks even file a tiny recess in the stock rail so the point has a place to nest in tightly. In some cases, a little bit of pressure against the throw rod (maybe a piece of metal or plastic under the rod) will add enough resistance that the points will be more difficult for wheels to pick.

Hopefully, those adjustments will solve your problem. Try the tender fixes first as that's most likely to be the source of the irritation.

A friend taught me an excellent way to monitor model railroad performance and identify problems so they can be fixed. He keeps (well, so do I now) an index card for every piece of rolling stock (including locos), turnout, bridge (broadly speaking) and length of track on his railroad. Whenever he has a problem he makes a note on the cards for the piece of rolling stock and the turnout or track length involved. Whenever any item has three or more issues noted, he inspects the car or track where the problem occurred and makes appropriate repairs. This system reliably identifies whether a problem resides in the track or the equipment moving over it. If different rolling stock has trouble at the same place, the track is implicated. If a given piece of equipment has problems in various locations it's the equipment, not the track. It might seem that we'd just know this anyway but, believe me, when we have an operating layout with many times as many cars as a real railroad would have for the same amount of trackage, the patterns can be missed. If this sounds like too much work, it isn't. Once the cards are made there is little bookkeeping to do and the time saved troubleshooting problems or fixing things that aren't broken more than makes up for the effort.

Good luck with your situation.
                                                 -- D

[bapguy]

Another thing to check look at the draw bar between the tender and loco. Make sure the draw bar part that hooks to the loco is all the way up the pin. Also is this a DCC engine? If it is check the wires between the tender and loco. I have a Conny (2-8-0) that had derailed on some turn outs and not others. I had to separate the tender from the loco and stretch out the wires. The wires had a kink in them that caused the tender to lift up. Also had to make sure the draw bar was up all the way on the pin on the loco.   Joe

[tmiller]

Hey guys, thanks for the advice. Yes, I am running a DCC unit. After I submitted this thread, I did find some other posts regarding the K4 tenders.

I did try manually pushing the unit through the turnout. It seemed that applying a little downward pressure on the tender, it did not derail. So thinking it was a weight issue, I added some steel washers on the top of the tender, but towards the back. Probably where it is not really needed, but that was the only flat spot where they would stay put. Probably was about .5 oz. It would work under power for a few times, then when I thought I had it solved it would derail. I did read on one of the threads where someone said to add 2oz. That seems like a lot, but whatever works. I think I will try adding the weight, perhaps 1oz to start with. Should I distribute it front to back, or keep it above the front truck?

Someone also mentioned switching the wheel sets, front to back. I will gauge the wheels, but my thought is they are right on, since they seem to work fine otherwise.

I really doubt that the wiring is a problem. When I had it apart to install the Tsunami decoder, I adjusted the wiring so it did not bind up. Now, the draw bar is another interesting area. It is a pain to disconnect the loco from the tender, but I have done it enough times I am getting used to it. I don't suspect the draw bar at this time.

I have filed the moveable rail to make it sit tight against the outer rail. I also went as far to grind down the inside bottom of the outer rail, so that the moveable rail would sit tight. I have done this to the other turnouts, with success. I am not sure about the comment to shim the throw rod to make it less likely to shift. Would it still be loose enough to throw remotely?  Can you be more specific? Would this be a shim under the throw rod? Sounds like an interesting theory.

I am really confused with this problem since the unit works fine with other right hand turnouts.

I like the idea on documenting rolling stock, track, etc.. I will get that process started. Thanks!

For now the unit is sitting on the bench ready to disassemble. Might be a couple of days before I get to it. The wife seems to think "Christmas stuff" takes priority over "train stuff". Hmmmmm.

Will let you guys know what I find. Thanks again for all your advice.

Ted

[Doneldon]

Partly, it could be weight, but not just overall weight. It may be that a little more weight near the front would change not only the tender's total weight but the distribution of that weight. So ... add a little weight -- maybe half an ounce -- right in the front of the tender.

Ted-

As I mentioned, put some weight inside the tender near the front. Putting weight in the middle might help but putting weight near the rear is more
likely to make things worse than help. That's because weight at the rear changes the geometry of the weight distribution, actually taking weight off of the front wheels. It's like loading cement bags in your trunk and then noticing that your steering and brakes don't work as well as they did. (The
same problem would develop if you put a bunch of weight on the front of a car; you'd lose traction in the rear.) 

                                                                                                                                                                                -- D

[MR536]

There is one other way I found to help spot the trouble...I have used a very inexpensive camcorder and played it back in slow-mo.  Not only did it help locate the derailment problems I had...but made it a lot easier to repair. Placing it at or near the turnout and running the loco at regular speed really helped

Marv

[West Bound]

Check the front trunks of the tender to see that they not only turn freely but they have some slight play up and down.  I had a similar issue with another steamer and found that the tender trucks were pretty tight: and that loosening the trucks allowed them to pass over frogs and tight radius without derails. -John

[tmiller]

Hey guys, problems resolved. What I did was several fixes.

First I added some shims to the throw rod. Didn't seem like much but it apparently made a difference.

Secondly, I added 1/2oz of weight to the front of the tender which helped.

Thirdly, I adjusted the wires between the loco and tender to loosen them up.

Not sure what single fix really resolved the problem, but it now runs through the turnout without derailing. Yeah!

Thanks for all your help and advice. Model railroading is certainly an ever ending learning experience.

Ted

[jward]

after 40 years or so, i still learn new things all the time. that's part of the attraction.

[Jerrys HO]

Ted
I am interested in what you did to the throw rods. I have spent many hours getting my turnouts functioning right and have replaced the wire for the throw rod. I just wonder what you did just in case I have reoccurring problems.

Jerry

[Doneldon]

Jerry-

Sometimes I put a small piece of cardboard under part of the throw rod on a turnout if it doesn't want to stay fully thrown. The
friction between the rod and cardboard helps hold the points in position. The trick is to test so you have enough friction to hold
the throw rod without adding so much resistance that the switch motor is strained which will shorten its life.

                                                                                                                                                                  -- D