HOn3 or HOn30??

[Doneldon]

81F-

You can erase whatever part of a quote you don't want as long as you leave the beginning and ending quotes in
place, and all coding for the quoted section unchanged. Then you just hit an enter or two at the very end of the
quoted section and start your own statement.
                                                                     -- D

[wjstix]

The 'why' of 30" gauge is simple, ever since home computers became commercially available the "1/2" and "1/4" keys typewriters and Wang Word Processors used to use have disappeared. Which made it harder to specifiy the correct Xn2-1/2 foot gauge (Where X=O/S/HO/TT/N/Z) in publications, so it got 'shorthanded' into Xn30 inch gauge.

Well, the problem there is On3 and On30 were in common usage many decades before PCs were available. Kalmbach Publications (MR, Trains) takes the stand that since On2 and On3 are in feet, On30 would mean 30 feet instead of 30 inches, so they use On2-1/2 for "two and a half feet". 

Generally, everyone else (including Bachmann) uses On30 and aren't confused by it.  

[81F]

If you think HOn3 and HOn30 is confusing you should look at the different gauge/scale combinations for narrow gauge used in the UK. Appart from G scale there is another large scale called SM32, this is 16mm/ft gauge running on O gauge (32mm) track to represent 2 foot gauge. The British equvalent to On30 is O 16.5, there is also a gauge called O 9 for those wishing to model 18" prototypes in O scale.

In the smaller scales (4mm to the foot) we have OO9 (with kits available for prototypes from 18" to 3" gauge) although there is the more correct OOn3 for the 3" gauges. However, I know of several who use TTn3 (3mm/foot scale on 9mm (n gauge) track to model 3ft gauge prototypes. and then for 2mm/foot narrowgauge there is n6.5 (2mm/foot on Z gauge track) - someone will probably tell me I've forgotton one or two!

Also, to the best of my knowlege there are no-mass produced ready to run British outline narrow gauge models particularly in the smaller scales.

[Woody Elmore]

81F - On my first visit to Britain years and years ago I found the old pounds, shillings, pence, hard to deal with! All the gauges and sizes are over the top. Can you imagine trying to keep a well stocked hobby shop?

[Johnson Bar Jeff]

81F - On my first visit to Britain years and years ago I found the old pounds, shillings, pence, hard to deal with!

I could deal with pounds, shillings, and pence, but crowns, half crowns, and guineas? 

[CNE Runner]

81F - I was under the impression that several manufacturers (Peco to name one) offered RTR rolling stock in OO/9. Of course there are the MinitrainS line...but they are German (or at least the Koppel locomotive is).

On second thought you may be more correct. I just checked through my latest issue of Railway Modeller and none of the big vendors (E. Hatton's, Cheltenham Model Centre, The Signalbox) offered OO/9 locomotives or rolling stock for sale. This is odd since all these 'houses' list OO/9 track components.

Ray

[81F]

I've just checked out the PECO website and it looks as if they've just got the preproduction samples and they will be releasing them in the new year. Interestingly the models are of Lynton and Barstaple Railway Prototypes. This was the Railway that owned LYN made by Bachmann in their Big Haulers®  range - now wouldn't that loco be nice in 009 or HOn30?

[CNE Runner]

As I mentioned earlier, the model railroad industry is probably waiting to see if HOn30, OO/9 becomes economically viable - before jumping into the 'pool'. I can imagine the production costs would be rather large for this type of endeavor.

Since much of my interest revolves around industrial/agricultural/waterfront operations the MinitrainS line of HOn30 trains meets my needs. Without any disparaging remarks about MinitrainS (I have none to offer), I would like relatively inexpensive, DCC equipped, locomotives (and their attendant rolling stock) with Bachmann quality and reliability...and, yes, they can be in English prototype.

Bachmann (and some others) have been wildly successful with their On30 line (although they are still large, 1:48 models). It is entirely possible one of the major manufacturers will chance having the same success with HOn30. We can only hope as many of us do not have the space for even On30 trains.

Ray

[ebtnut]

Remind me, do the Brits use 1/4" scale or 7mm scale for O scale modeling?

[CNE Runner]

I checked through a couple of issues of both Railway Modeller and Continental Modeller and they both mention only O-gauge. For example: SMR offers resin model building kits in O Gauge, Mikron Model Railways has an O Gauge section in their ad as does E. Hatton's. The Railway Modeller "News" section is divided by gauge and has an O Gauge section. One of the featured layouts (Plan of the Month) is a "freight scheme for O gauge". While not definitive, it appears that Brits refer to "O Gauge" and not (usually) 7mm or 1/4" scale.

Perhaps some of our U.K. brothers can shed more light on the subject.

Ray

[ebtnut]

That's the problem we run into over hear all the time - referring to scales by the term "gauge".  As discussed, HO scale is 1/87 reduction from the prototype.  HO gauge rightly refers to the gauge of the track for standard gauge.  But there is HOn3 gauge - still the same scale but modeling 3 foot narrow gauge.  I know the Brits have long had the issue of using 4mm scale trains on HO gauge track, making the models oversize for the track gauge.  The old continental O (or "zero") gauge was 7mm scale, but I wasn't sure if the Brits did the same as we did and rounded the scale down to 1/4", leaving the track gauge alone. 

[Doneldon]

The use, and continued use, of the so-called English measurement system rather than metric is explains why Eoropean and US models are
not exactly the same size and aren't even in the proper relation to one another in the US. We round 3.5mm to 1:87, use 1/4" instead of
7mm (for O gauge), and (I think) round 1.75mm to 1:160 for N scale. Thus, all of our scales are just a little off. O gauge itself is slightly off
in the scale versus gauge dimension, HO is larger than the half-O-gauge proportion it is supposed to be, and N is a bit larger than half the size
of HO. I suppose we could try to convert to metric scale on this side of the pond but that would be just about impossible given the huge
installed base of off-scale layouts and equipment.

The US was supposed to completely convert to metric in the mid-1980s but it never happened. The auto industry almost got there, largely
due to the enormous number of imported metric-size vehicles here, but most other industries just didn't bother to convert. There are some
valid reasons for that, I suppose. For example, how would you like to run a building center which has to stock both metric and English lumber?
Just wall studs would come in both 93" and something on the order of 235 cm. They would be too close in size to discriminate visually, but they
couldn't be used interchangeably. Throw in the rest of the sizes of dimensional lumber, plywood, manufactured building products, hardwoods,
treated lumber and the rest and you have a bona fide nightmare. And that's without looking at the confusion and duplication for lumber
harvesters, mills and factories.

Interestingly, only one industry has completely converted to metric worldwide, and it did it long before the pretend US mandate. Which one was
it? The liquor industry. Why did they do it? They could save about .4 ounces in a standard bottle of wine or spirits. The old "fifth" was about 25.6
ounces while the "metric fifth" is about 25.2 ounces. The savings (for the brewers, distillers and vintners, not us) are even greater for the "party"
"half" gallon. That bottle was really 1.75 quarts, or 56 ounces. The metric size is 1.5 liters, just over 50 ounces.
                                                                                                                                                                                -- D

[uscgtanker]

On30 runs on ho track hon3 is 3foot narrow gauge and hon30 is 2 foot narrow gauge, runs on n scale track. I have modeld both and found hon30 works really well for mines small lumber farms ect ect. Most of the 2 footers are in main so can only model a prototypical railway would be modeld. Hon3 is any narrow gauge line that can be found ranging from east broad top to C&S. On30 is 3foot narrow for O scale.

[ebtnut]

Just a correction - On3 is three-foot narrow gauge for O scale.  On30 is approx. 30" narrow gauge for O scale, running on HO gauge track. 

[81F]

Although I have never modelled in O gauge I understand that 7mm to 1 foot is used. At the risk of upsetting some of my older countrymen Britain is virtually metricated to the extent that Imperial sized drills and screw threads (although I know the latter were different in the US) are impossible to find in highstreet stores.

The only things left in regular use are miles, miles per hour, pints (in measuring beer and sometimes still milk). Pounds (weight) and ounces are generally not used (although this is recent). However, there are many things available with odd metric weights which convert very nicely into round imperial unit!