Peter Witt Streetcar

[justbob]

I have two Peter Witt Streetcar. Information furnished with car states that reversing unit will automatically go to forward when power is off for about seven seconds. My units do not do this. It takes about 25 - 30 seconds for this to happen. Is there something wrong with my units or can I adjust the time somehow?

[671]

Hi justbob,

       671 here. Your challenge of the electronic E-Unit not cycling within the 7 second stated time period, may have an external cause.
       If voltage is being "fed" to the Trolley even after you have de-powered the track with your transformer, this will hold the E-unit in or delay it's action
       Use a digital volt meter on the track itself. You may find that a stray or induced current is powering that track at a very low voltage.
        You may have an item that has capacitors back feeding voltage to the track circuit. Another possibility is two wires running parallel. One that "feeds" the trolley track and another that is powered "feeding" something else. This could induce current flow in the non-powered wire by induction through intemit contact.
        Your transformer may be the cause, by weeping current in the off position.

                    Just a thought, Hope this helps...671

[DominicMazoch]

671 does have a point.  Some transformers have voltages which start not at 0, but 5 or more volts.  If the transformer is not completely in the off position, some current could be getting to the track, keeping the e-unit on.  Also see if the transformer is not placing power to the track in the off position by cheeking the outputs of the transformer with a voltmeter.   If you don't have one, get one.  One tool you will use a lot!

[justbob]

Thank you fr your suggestions. I checked it out. I get no voltage either at the transformer or on the track. Anyother suggestions

[671]

Hi justbob,

            Let me ask for Joe Satnik's opinion on this. Hey Joe any input on this? I am pretty much out of ideas right now.
            The only thought would be to try the trolley on an isolated test track with a different transformer and record the results.
            Joe, what suggestion would you have? I am at a dead end.

                                      Thanks...671

[Joe Satnik]

Dear All,

Blast from the past: 

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,13932.0.html

A few wild guesses:

WAG #1. A wrong value component was accidentally used by the factory in the "reset to forward" timer circuit. 

R x C (Resistance X Capacitance) = Time Constant in an analog timer. 

Resistance (or capacitance) to large would cause the reset time to be too long.

WAG #2. A replacement part (some components become obsolete) that senses the decaying R x C voltage could trigger "reset to forward" at a much lower voltage, and therefore a much later time.

WAG #3.  A WBB (re)designer tried to shorten the "reset to forward" time for a new "trolly only" reverser board, but accidentally changed the component value in the wrong direction.  (e.g. Would have to decrease R value {Ohms} to shorten time, not increase.) 

WAG #4  The "reset to forward" time was never engineered (computed), and was just a lucky happenstance of component leakage or power consumption. 

Newer, less leaky or less power hungry components keep the voltage higher longer, causing a later reset.   

If there is no special (different part number) reverser board for just the trollies, this longer reset time would be common on all newer locos. 

Hope this isn't too confusing.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik

[phillyreading]

To make sure it is the transformer, you can remove one of the power wires from the terminal to the track power and see if this helps.
Sometimes things in a manual say it takes a few seconds, which can mean 30 to 40 seconds. Don't hold a stop-watch to seven seconds, as this may never occur. As long as it goes back to forward in close to a minute, be happy with the E-unit!

Electronics is not an exact science, too many variables, sometimes people leave out a minor detail and with electronics this can be very important. Do you have both Peter Witt streetcars on the same track at the same time? Do you have a lighted power lock-on? Do you have any switches installed on the tracks with the Peter Witt cars?
A lot of stuff now-a-days uses capacitors; switches, operating accessories, sometimes lighted cars and the capacitors store a small electrical current in them and may take a few seconds to drain.

Lee F.

[justbob]

I have two streetcars and they both act the same. I have remove one of the power wires from the transformer and the cars still act the same. There is nothing else hooked up to the track. No lighted power lock-on, no switches etc. I have tested the cars on several different sets of track and they always act the same. I also ran the streetcars on an isolated test track with its own transformer. Same results
Not sure I fully understand the comments by Joe Satnik, but if all new streetcars act the way mine do I guess there is nothing else I can do.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and comments

[Joe Satnik]

Bob,

If I had a schematic of the reverser board and got a true understanding of what affects the "reset to forward" time, it would be a relatively simple fix/modification.  

In real life, the operator would stop the streetcar, get out, pull down the trolly pole, (all streetcar lights would go dead),

swing the trolley pole around 180 degrees, guide it back up to the wire, (power restored), get back in and drive in the opposite direction.  

(The trolly pole must be pulled along wire, not pushed.)

If you are running a full loop or a single line with turnaround loops on each end, the trolly could always be run in forward.

Modify your streetcar to "forward only" by bypassing the reverser board with a diode bridge.  

If you want to manually change directions, add a DPDT switch for forward/reverse, or a "center off" DPDT switch for forward/neutral/reverse.

Mount the switch inconspicuously, but reachable while the streetcar is on the track.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Joe Satnik  

[phillyreading]

I was in Tampa Bay over a year ago and the Ybor(pronounced Eebor) City trolley operator got out and lowered the pole on the one end and raised the pole on the other end and got back in the other end of the streetcar and drove it from the other end. This is a 600 volt DC system for going around the city area.
Most of the trolleys on this system are reworked antigue trolleys from across the USA.

Lee F.

[justbob]

Joe

Thanks for the info. I am running just a simple loop of track. If I knew where the reverser board was located and what a dioode bridge is I would make the changed. Guess I will have to live with what I have

Bob

[phillyreading]

Bob,

A diode bridge is not hard to hook up, use at least a 6 amp diode bridge rectifier, Radio Shack used to sell them.
Find where the power wires go into the circuit board and un-plug it, tie into these wires somehow and then wire the diode bridge; one wire to ~ the other to the second ~, a wire from the plus + or minus - sign on the diode to each color motor wire. Motor wires are usually brown and yellow but could be other colors, keep each color group together.

Lee F.

[TrainmanGene]

Lee
The Cars in Tampa have bodies built new by the Gomaco Trolley Company in Iowa back around 2000 and the trucks and components are from retired Peter Witt Cars from Milan Italy. There is one of the old Single truck Birneys from 1922 sitting in the yard which is strating to look neglected and I hope they put it in a shelter to prevent it from deteriorating. There is also a old Tampa work car and Double truch Birney which are planned for restoration someday.

I was in Tampa Bay over a year ago and the Ybor(pronounced Eebor) City trolley operator got out and lowered the pole on the one end and raised the pole on the other end and got back in the other end of the streetcar and drove it from the other end. This is a 600 volt DC system for going around the city area.
Most of the trolleys on this system are reworked antigue trolleys from across the USA.

Lee F.

[phillyreading]

Lee
The Cars in Tampa have bodies built new by the Gomaco Trolley Company in Iowa back around 2000 and the trucks and components are from retired Peter Witt Cars from Milan Italy. There is one of the old Single truck Birneys from 1922 sitting in the yard which is strating to look neglected and I hope they put it in a shelter to prevent it from deteriorating. There is also a old Tampa work car and Double truch Birney which are planned for restoration someday.

That's interesting about the streetcars in Tampa Bay, I didn't know they were Peter Witt streetcars. The streetcars are very nice, quiet and no diesel exhaust!

Where I grew up there used to be streetcars that ran down the middle of the street in Reading PA, the tracks are still there and keep poking up from under the pavement. They never took up the streetcar tracks in Reading PA, as of eight to ten years ago. I have some old photos somewhere and maybe I can find one to see what was used in Reading PA and Berks County.

Lee F.

[r0gruth]

If I understand the original question the problem is that the street car does not return to forward as quickly as wanted.

I do not have the WBB street cars but several locos and have never experienced this problem.

Have you contacted Bachmann directly by phone?

Of course you can quickly cycle through the sequence with the reverse/direction button on your transformer.