advice needed for a beginner

[jdenk]

Hello everyone!

I am looking for some advice to get started.  I have 2 young sons who are really into trains right now and am hoping this can lead to some special time for us for many years.  I remember having a train set when i was younger and I had an uncle who had a huge layout in his basement but I don't have much background.  Should I be investing in a DCC system right away instead of upgrading from a DC in a couple years?  The Bachmann Digital Commander has been recommended on some websites as the best way to start out.  If I go with EZ track do I have to stick with that for my layout.  If i add lights does the dcc controller run those? I'm pretty good with making things but wiring I am a novice at.  I have an unfinshed basement that i plan on setting up in.  I have plenty of wood/lumber to make a table.  I would like 3-4 trains to start out, any ideas on size of layout?  Look forward to any and all suggestions.  Thank you.

[mabloodhound]

Welcome JD.   The boys will love your trains and so won't your sons.
I presume you're considering HO scale.   The EZ track can be worked into a larger layout later on if you choose.
If you can afford the DCC equipped locos and controls to now, I would recommend them.   Wiring up your layout is much simpler with DCC.   And sound in the locos is something the kids will love.
Others will tell you to start with DC but when you want to run multiple trains, then you need to have blocks wired up.   DCC does not need any block wiring.
As for lighting, the cars are lit by power from the track.   If you mean buildings, etc. you should plan on a separate power supply for those.   A little wall wart will supply light power to a number of buildings.
When you make you "table" remember to keep it no more that 2' wide if it's against a wall.   You wont be able to reach much more that 2' to get at something at the back, which by Murphy's Law is bound to happen.
Size of the layout depends on the size of your room/space.

[richg]

You did not mention scale of interest.

If you want to power other things from DCC, you will need a 5 amp booster. Better to operate layout lighting like was suggested.
I suspect you do not know much about DCC yet so don't jump to fast.
There is a nice Bachmann 2-6-0 with sound and a nice small diesel with sound. Both are about $120.00 each. You might find them for no more than $100.00 depending on how well you search around. To my knowledge, they do not come in a set yet.
The EZ Command DCC controller is quite limited for programing and will only operte, maybe two or three locos. The Dynamis is better.
The Bachmann DCC on board, non sound and sound locos also operate with DC.

Rich

[Jerrys HO]

JD
I agree with ole bloodhound. I might add that I started with the digital commander set and grew from there. There is an add on to the EZ Command that would allow both your boy's to enjoy running their own trains independently which is the walk around companion.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=1457

I have all EZ track on my layout which has grew another 15 ft. from this pic..
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,20416.0.html

Some say you need the booster to run a larger layout. I bought one for when I expanded which is now 12x25 but have yet to unwrap it from the plastic.
The EZ Command is one of the easiest and basic controller's but it has not had any problem's doing what I ask of it.  

This is a great forum to ask any question's you may have. Hope you and the boy's have a great time on your adventure.

Jerry

also check out thefavoritespot.com for great prices on Bachmann merchandise. I also check out there ebay listings as they run specials starting at .99

[jdenk]

Thanks for the advice guys, I appreciate it.  I will be going with HO scale.  The pictures are great and really show there is no limit to what you want to do no matter what size.  Another quick question, I noticed on some pictures there was styrofoam or another material on top of the plywood, is that the best and/or easiest material to make tunnels, mountains, etc. from?

[Jerrys HO]

I use 2 inch foam board I get from Home Depot and glue my tracks to that with hot glue. The mountains are made with the same foam and waded up newspaper covered with plaster cloth. The foam board can be cut easily to create ponds,lakes,or rivers.
Stacked together it can form mountains and rock ledges. I do a lot of you tubing.

Here's a link I got from another member.
http://mrr.trains.com/Videos/Expert%20Tips.aspx

I'll have to post some updated pics of my layout.

Jerry

[Ken G Price]

No doubt in in my mind. Go DCC from the start. Get the learning curve out of the way.
I go with Richg on the Dynamis system.

[Doneldon]

JD-

I, too, recommend starting with DCC but I wouldn't use the EZ Command unit as it has very little power and no real ability to program your locos or lighting effects beyond setting the loco number (and you really don't actually do that) and identifying which end of your loco is the front. The booster is hugely expensive and you can get a more powerful system with full programming ability for the same as you'd pay for a non-programming EZ Command and booster. The Dynamis is an excellent choice for a first system but you should also compare what intro systems from other manufacturers have to offer.

As has been stated, it's MUCH easier to wire a DCC layout than it is to wire a DC layout for multiple train operation. However, don't believe the myth that a single feeder is all you need. To operate to its full capacity DCC needs very reliable power. It's not likely that you'll have that through track joints and turnouts (switches), and the quality of electrical transmission through track joints will deteriorate over time. I urge you to run a power buss of #14 wire around under your layout with smaller wire (22 - 26 ga) feeders running up to the rails at regular intervals. If you plan a medium to large empire you might want to go with #12 wire for your power buss.

An unfinished basement is both the most common residence for model railroads and one of the most hostile. Unfinished walls and (especially) ceilings shed incredible amounts of dust and debris which is extremely difficult to remove without damaging the layout. At a minimum, staple some plastic to the bottoms of the joists in the area of your trains. The cheapest plastic drop cloths from a hardware store or discount store will do if it's carefully stapled. It's not generally feasible to tent plastic sheeting over a model railroad between operating and building sessions, but I know some people who have been able to hang plastic sheeting from hooks suspended from the joists as a way to protect their layouts when idle. You will need heavier plastic for this -- at least 4 mil.

EZ track is an excellent choice for a beginning layout although it's pricey. You can use other brands and types of track with your EZ track but adapting them together will require a little ingenuity. Nothing you can't do, however. I used all EZ track for a complex layout for my grandson and I (and, more importantly, he) have been very satisfied with it. Of course I soldered many track joints and have feeders to every chunk of track. One thing I strongly advise is keeping to one or perhaps two styles/manufacturers of track. Going beyond that will require a lot of adaptations and cosmetic differences which you'll have to conceal.

Be meticulous with your track laying. Anything less, even with a sturdy and well functioning product like EZ track, will result in derailments which can ruin your satisfaction with the hobby. Careful track work, properly mounted wheels and trucks, and properly mounted excellent couplers are the three keys to a railroad which is fun to run and watch. Anything less is a discouragement.

Welcome to model railroading and good luck with your layout. Please keep us posted on your progress.
                                                                                                                                                            -- D

[jward]

one thing that needs to be pointed out is that HO scale has compatability standards so that virtually any HO locomotives and cars can run on any brand of HO track...... the exception are the narrow guage trains with scales like HOn3 or HOn30. keep to the standard guage HO and everything will run together.

alot of older cars and locomotives used a different coupling system than is standard now. thomas and friends trains still do. these will still run on your track, you just won't be able to mix them with your other trains.

[richg]

Below is a link to a lot of DCC wirng info. Take your time and look around.

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/intro2dcc.htm#a25

Build an audible short detector to use while installing track and wiring. 
Some make the mistake of completing the layout and find they have a short, somewhere.

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/magazine/mrh-2012-03-mar/audible_short_detector

Rich

[rbryce1]

I got back into model railroading about 6 months age after a 45 year break.  I purchased 2 DC steam engines on eBay.  Then I say DCC and immediately spent all my time learning DCC and converting to it.  I had my first steam engine, a 4-6-4 Hudson converted to DCC and have been doing all my own work ever since.

The best thing I ever did was dedicate my hobby to DCC from the start.  I do have turnouts and such that are not DCC that now I either will be using pretty much manually or converting them to DCC, which is work and money.

There is just so many really cool things you get from using DCC that are just not possible with DC.

[Desertdweller]

My advice to you is to forget the DCC.

It is expensive, incompatible with any DC locos you may already own, requires additional work programming decoders, requires power be kept at higher voltage on the track at all times (unless you install block wiring in addition to the DCC), requires additional track feeders, is sensitive to any temporary interruption of track power, requires additional equipment to troubleshoot, and the basic beginner DCC control equipment will only handle two or three locos.

Unless your other hobby is building electronic projects, I think you will be disappointed.

Les

[Doneldon]

I do have turnouts and such that are not DCC that now I either will be using pretty much manually or converting them to DCC, which is work and money.

rb-

You don't need to go to the work, time and expense of converting all of your turnouts to DCC, and you won't gain much if you do. The only advantage would be that you'd be able to throw turnouts from anywhere around your layout. But do you really need to throw turnouts on parts of the layout where you are not standing? Probably not unless you are running your trains from a central point, in which case you can still throw distant turnouts with your existing switches.

Your manual turnouts (unconverted) will work just like they do now, i.e., you can throw them when you are in the neighborhood and need to throw them. The same is true for your remote turnouts. They can be thrown from a central control panel or by controls mounted to your nearby fascia.

Depending on how many turnouts you want to convert, but don't, you could easily save enough money and time to do anything from building a few freight car kits, to operating your layout several more hours, to adding a smashing new big-time steam engine with sound. I'll bet that, considering the costs compared to the benefits, you'll have a difficult time committing what for most of us are precious resources on a total conversion to DCC. But, whichever way you go, good luck.
                                                                                                                                                             -- D

[richg]

When I switched to DCC, I unplugged my DC power pack and plugged in the DCC controller. I ran three locos. Manual switch tracks left as is. Nothing on the layout is operated by DCC except the locos.

Rich

[NarrowMinded]

If this is for young kids I would just get the Ez command and walk around companions to start with it will be much "EZ'er" for the kids to play with and control the locomotives.

My girls play with a EZ command They can be seen on the Bachmann home page on the floor with the Ez command, We have since added the Companion and they have fun running their own loco's and trying not to bang into each other, it has really taught them how to cooperate with each other and planning and out come skills when they set up the tracks and run trains.

NM-Jeff