Chinese lead paint concerns

[duker1]

Greetings,
  A lot of us have little ones around our layouts at one time or another. And we pretty much know that there is a tendency for things to be placed inside mouths that we may or may not have been aware of. Should we be concerned that the makers/painters of Bachmann products in China are lead free? Mattel/Fisher-Price have the most stringent product safety process and yet they are having to recall from 1 to 1.5 million toys with lead paint made in China.

The Duke....

[the Bach-man]

Dear Duke,
Our products have not been involved in the recall.
Have fun!
the Bach-man

[Jim Banner]

Lead or no lead, I would not want my little ones putting model railroad equipment in their mouths.  Rug rats with an oral fixation need to be protected from a number of the chemicals used around model railroads, not just in paint but in rails, wheels, body castings, and lubricants.  If there is no one to hold the child, use a high chair.  For old children, let them stand on a kitchen chair with its back toward the layout so that they can hang on.  And of course place the chair more than an arm's length from the layout.

[Bill Baker]

Amen Jim.  I lost a Genesis F3 to the floor, followed by my grandson because I didn't turn the chair around.

[Atlantic Central]

Jim Banner,

While I agree with you completely, you realize that such ideas and values are not politically correct these days. The vast majority of Americans over 45 grew up in housing covered with lead based paint, yet most of them suffered no ill effects. Why is that? Maybe because their parents actually invested time and effort into cleaning house and raising children rather than watching TV and collecting welfare while junior is left unattended to chew the window sills.

But what do I know, I'm just a hick with a pickup.....

Sheldon

[duker1]

I understand that no Bachmann products were involved in the recall. And I also realize that we have a certain amount of responsibility to watch over ourselves, family, friends and visitors. My post asked if we should be concerned with the possibility that Bachmann's Chinese manufacturers are not using any lead based paints. And are the quality/safety controls up to your high standards?

Duke.....

[rogertra]

....................Should we be concerned that the makers/painters of Bachmann products in China are lead free? Mattel/Fisher-Price have the most stringent product safety process and yet they are having to recall from 1 to 1.5 million toys with lead paint made in China.

The Duke....

It's painfully obvious that the Chinese have abosolutley no concern over standards.  Ours, theirs (If they even have any) and it doesn't matter if it's toys, pet food or human food.  They have a complete disregard for copywrite laws and fragrently ignore them and if a manufacturer complains their copywrite is being infringed, the Chinese government does nothing about it.

Inspite of the above, western governments still court China and western companies still ship western jobs to China.  And then we wonder why these things happen?

[conradin]

Keep in mind that Kader (Bachmann) technically is a Hong Kong company (ok, they do register, technically, at Bermuda, like a lot of companies in Hong Kong), not a mainland Chinese one.  There is a HUGH difference between the two countries when it comes to the laws.  The former has a well established system that was British based for more than 150 years, while the latter is still trying to figure out how to apply commercial laws in a still de facto and very much de jure communist country.  Since Kader controls its own factories in China, I highly doubt that there will be any problems.  If something coming out of Dongguan is not right, Kader will be the first one to get hurt.  Finally, Dongguan is not one of those middle of nowhere places.

If you really want to learn about Bachmann (Kader), the best way is actually read their annual financial report.  You will be able to not just figure it out what they are doing now, but also what they will be doing.  Want to know if they have any plans to expand the current production offerings?  Want to know what they will do with a latest acquisition from Europe and what to do with this newly acquired train company?  Planning to have a staff layoffs in Philadelphia?  Read the reports.

http://www.kaderholdings.com/announcement.html

The real problem of an US company using a Chinese factory is that, if they choose to use a mainland Chinese supplier that either they have no control over, or has no trustworthy supervising agent to act for them, then they are asking for trouble.  Most companies in China are still learning the idea of "financial responsibility", so the idea of "manufacturing responsibility and quality control" is really secondary, or rather, hard for them to understand.
This is especially true to the manufacturing sect, ie, factories, which are usually not publicly traded.  With nobody to answer to (stockholders), owners of these factories can be very short sighted, and work on shortcuts that can lead to disastrous results.  The idea of quality control, good manufacturing means continuing to receive orders, good business practices, etc etc etc...is really a foreign idea.  Many factories, especially in the rural area, are basically owned by party officials, former party officials, or friends of party officials.  To ask these people, some of them lifetime communists, to learn about manufacturing in a capitalistic driven economy within 10 years, is unreasonable.   I have friends who came from former East Germany and since run their own business...while I am not accusing them of cutting corners to the point of unethical and hazardous to their customers to their face, all I can say is their idea of running a business and business philosophy are definitely a bit different from us.

It is the manufacturing version of buying a house site unseen in another state.

[JM]

   Lead paint?   well, I guess it IS time that China moved into the 19th century.....what will be next?  indoor plumbing and that new fangled tellyophone?
 
In all seriousness though,  this isn't the first time there have been recalls for this sort of thing....it is very sobering to hear that it's Fisher-Price though,  I would have expected more from them in the way of quality control and monitoring, considering what business they're in they should be on top of every aspect of production.

[Spule 4]

First off, lead is still used in paint today, even made within the US.  Just not housing paint (banned for 29 years now), but industrial use is still seen.

Second, the concerns with lead paint have little to do with housekeeping or how kids are raised, but the condition of the housing itself.  Some of the worst cases of interior high lead levels I have encountered were not within public housing units or schools, but houses in "gentrified" areas where two professionals with high incomes had a bright idea of flipping a 100+ old house after watching a few episodes of Bob Vila while their kids "help" rolling around in the debris. 

Sure, our hobby involves hazards, but that is why you have to be smart when you are involved with it (eg, not filing the castings from a 40+ year old LaBelle kit in the living room) and how and what you teach your kids (distract them from the good stuff with a loop of LGB).

[Atlantic Central]

Spule 4,

As a Home Inspector and Historic Restoration Professional I must both agree and disagree with various parts of your statement.

Yes, some industrial paints still contain some lead, but in much lower levels than years ago.

Yes, amature remodelers who don't know what they are doing can cause problems. And, children do not belong in ANY construction site in my opinion, lead paint or not.

I live in a 106 year old Queen Anne that still has all the original wood work and walls. I removed all the old trim paint and never had an elevated lead level. I encapsulated the wall paint with an approved encapsulant.

But, poorly maintained housing and poor housekeeping do work hand in hand to create the hazard. People who CHOOSE to live in run down, beat up, dirty, filthy conditions put themselves and their children at this and many other risks.

I personally don't buy the notion they have no choice. I say this because I was poor once, rasing 3 children in a older rented home, on one small paycheck, living payday to payday, etc. But our house was clean and well maintained to provide a safe invironment for my children. I saw to these matters rather than sitting around watching cable TV, drinking beer and complaining about how I was oppressed by those with money.

I'm tired of this culture blaming a can of paint for the bad behavors of lazy people. If it was the paint, not the condition or the housekeeping, then the middle class kids in old neighborhoods from all through the 20th century would have had lead poisoning, but they don't.

I will put some blame on slum lords, as a landlord myself I would never rent out a property that I would not be willing to live in myself, but then too, I don't rent to people on wellfare. And, I do yearly inspections of my properties, I fix what needs fixing and don't renew leases to those who don't take reasonable care of my property.

I know, lets just bulldoze all the old houses like mine and put them in a landfill, there's an invironmentally sound idea. My house may harbor some lead paint somewhere, but it has never put a roof in a land fill and it has no vinyl siding or windows that will only last 25 years then spend 25 million years in some landfill. Lead based paints on wood was no less safe or invironmentally sound than the junk we build today.

Sheldon

[ASIANLIFE]

''what will be next?  indoor plumbing and that new fangled tellyophone''

Actually in many parts of China- yes. This is a country that was at one time the greatest on the planet, and then through wars, famine, etc etc went backwards to a point where human life was very cheap, and different values appled.

I live in Hong Kong and have visited Kader- as said before, they are subject to the laws here. Although Hong Kong has reverted to China, there is a  one-country two-systems agreement which includes the rule of law which is still basically that introduced by Britain.

Nowadays there is virtually no manufacturing in Hong Kong as it has moved to China. I understand Kader's factory is owned by them, and as such should offer a lot less concern that some manufacturers and products.

n.b. most of Hong Kong's food comes from China- now that is a little worrying.

[conradin]

What is the factory's Chinese name...I know that they are putting in a new Chinese name for their holding company for stock exchange purposes.

Speaking of which, are you member of the HKRS?

I live in Hong Kong and have visited Kader- as said before, they are subject to the laws here. Although Hong Kong has reverted to China, there is a  one-country two-systems agreement which includes the rule of law which is still basically that introduced by Britain.

[ASIANLIFE]

''What is the factory's Chinese name...I know that they are putting in a new Chinese name for their holding company for stock exchange purposes.

Speaking of which, are you member of the HKRS?''

Yes I saw Kader are adopting a Chinese name, I have only seen it in Chinese script so not sure what it looks like in Romanized characters. Maybe I can ask my contact for a factory visit, then I might see the new product lines in the flesh.

No not a member of HKRS


Paul

[conradin]

Do you think you can convince them to make a series of old HK locomotives and passenger cars (under Bachmann China brand)?