DCC Ready on DC power

[LDBennett]

I have a Con-Cor PCC trolley running on a DC layout. The package says it is "DCC Ready". I find it takes nearly twice the throttle setting for the same speed as all my other four trolleys (two Spectrums and t
Bowsers). The Spectrum trolleys came with a dummy plug for DC operation and with a DCC plug in board. I installed the dummy plug in the Spectrums. The Bowser trolleys are NOT DCC ready.

Is it possible I have to install a dummy plug in the Con-Cor Trolley to make it more efficient in using the DC power source? If so where can i find a dummy plug for it?

LDBennett

[richg]

That is normal for a decoder loco on DC. That has been mentioned a lot here. Nature of the beast.
Make your own adapter with a spare NMRA 8 pin plug. Wire the same as the Bachmann adapter.
I have done that but that assumes soldering experience.

Rich

[richg]

The logic circuits on the decoder require 5 VDC just to wake up. S.O.P. The microprocessor needs 5 volt power to send pulse power to the motor and DC to the lights.
The motor will requite a couple volts more to start moving which is why sound locos have sounds before moving.
Do a Bachmann search for dc on dcc.

Rich

[Ken G Price]

Richg, I have always thought and read that DCC ready means there is no decoder in it, but one can be installed easily.
Have things changed where DCC ready means DCC decoder installed?

[richg]

Yeah, you are correct. I read that as a decoder on board.

The Con Cor might have a mechanical issue. Try to remove the motor and see if everything runs smoothly without the motor. If it does, then the motor is probably the problem.
I learned many years ago to remove the motor and gently push the loco on a piece of glass and see if the drivers and gears work ok. I learned this from a model train magazine article for checking out steamer gears, drivers and side rods.

Rich

[LDBennett]

You know, the dummy plug must be in there or the trolley would not run.

I found the schematic for the dummy plug and without it the motor gets no power, as best as I can tell.

And to be clear this is a DCC Ready trolley with no decoder in it, or so it says on the box (??). Is it possible there is a decode installed? Would a train with a decoder act this way when operated on DC only?

There is something else going on here. I emailed Con-Cor. We'll see if they respond. They already sent a robo letter claiming to be a small manufacturer who has to meter out time to address emails and expect delays for answers.

LDBennett

[jward]

it does sound like there is a decoder already in there. the question is, is it a plug in decoder? if so, using a dummy plug would solve the problem. if it is a pc board type decoder, then you'd have to replace it with a dc pc board. concor should have those available as parts.

[rbryce1]

I went through all this with Bachmann recentyly and this is what they had to say.

If it says nothing on the box, it is only DC and has no plugs or circuit boards in the engine at all.

If it say DCC Ready, the engine is equipped with the circuit board, the motor is isoplated and wiored to receive a DCC decoder, but a DCC decoder is not provided.  Instead, they install a dummp chip, which routes poser from the wheels directly to the motor.  This setup will run exactly like a DC engine.  To convert it to DCC, all you need to do is get a decoder of your choice with 8 pins, remove the dummy plug and install the 8 pin decoded and presto, your engine is now NMRA DCC equipped.

If it says DCC Onboard, everything is installed to operate in DCC mode.

I had purchased a DCC Ready Erie Lackawanna diesel and it ran fine in DC mode.  Bachmann's tech support told me what decoder they used and they sell it for about $25.00 or so as they cannot compete with their resellers.  I found the decoder on line for $16.95.  I purchased it, removed the dummy chip which is only about a 1/4" x 1/4" circuit board, installed the new decoder in it's place and it now runs perfectly fine in DCC mode.

[jward]

i think what bachmann was referring to by "circuit board" is the actual dcc plug. i have converted quite a few bachmann diesels to dcc some of which were standard line, and some of which were older spectrum models. all of them had a circuit board wihc held the headlights among other things such as rf suppression capacitors. a quick look at the parts drawing included in the box of any new locomotive should show whether there is in fact a circuit board inside. for anything produced in the past 15 years or so, most do. for locomotives older than 15 years or so, many don't.

dcc ready is a deceptive term. bachmann dcc ready locomotives have the 8 pin socket for a decoder. on other makes that may not be the case. nmra classifies a locomotive as dcc ready if the motor is isolated from the chassis in a way that makes it possible to insert a decoder into the wiring between the motor and the wheel pickups. i am not familiar with con-cor products so i can't tell you how they do things. but atlas dcc ready usually means replacing a circuit boardwith a decoder designed to drop into place of the board, with the existing wire connections to wheels, motor and headlights reconnected to pads on the decoder. it is not a simple plug n play. mantua locvomotives seem to use a 9 pin jst plug which allows digitrax and certain other decoders to plug in without a wiring harness. you cannot use a decoder with an 8 pin plug without hard wiring it. all are considered dcc ready.

[LDBennett]

Con-Cor told me via email that they use gearing in the Con-Cor PCC's that is biased towards slow running. I am not sure if my slower running Con-Cor PCC is caused by this or if there is a decoder in it that was not suppose to be there. Con-Cor PCC is "DCC Ready" with a DCC decoder NOT installed, according to them. They also claim the trolley will not move until the track DC voltage is in excess of 4 volts. I may have to take some voltage data on the Spectrum and Browser trolleys, as well as the Con-Cor to understand this issue. I guess to be sure I'll have to look inside.



But you know, the Con-Cor PCC actually runs excellently, both slow and faster and will absolutely creep along smoothly if you desire. it is hard to feel in any way cheated by Con-Cor. In fact, I just bought and am awaiting delivery of another of their trolleys (Pennsylvania MUmP54).

LDBennett

[LDBennett]

OK, so I monitored the track voltage for the Con-Cor PCC and it works exactly as Con-Cor says it should. It does not move until the voltage on the track is above 4 volts whereas my Spectrum Peter Witt starts moving at around 3 volts or even a bit less.

I have no idea about the differences but it is part of the Con-Cor design. I give them that their operation is extremely smooth compared to the Spectrum and the Bowser trolleys at close to these startup voltage.

The good news is nothing is wrong with the the Con-Cor.

Another good thing is that with every day I learn something new about today's model railroading. I have only been at this a couple of months and my knowledge has increase by leaps and bounds through asking questions and lots of reading. My little point to point (8 feet long town scene) layout is in the final details stage with additions in the wings. I'll try to put it all under microcontroller control (Arduino UNO) and add about 12 feet of track (a loop with a yard) with an emphasis this time on more running track and not the scenics as I did on the original little layout.

Good times!!

Thank you all for participating in my threads here. You have helped a lot !

LDBennett