DCC in older GS4 4-8-4?

[blvdbuzzard]

I have an older, I do mean real old GS4.  It is NIB.  I am installing DCC in all of the loco's I have.  I read some place, I could be wrong, but the newer tenders have power pick up and mine does not.  What would be an easy way to install the DCC with sound in this engine?  Order the tender and the circuit board for the engine and wire it up?  Just buy a steam sound decoder from Soundtraxx, MRC, Digitrax or the like?

Thanks.

Buzz.

[richg]

First of all, there is no easy way to add pickups short of buying a truck with all wheel pickup. Those cost $20.00 each for HO. Four wheel or six wheel trucks?
But, the fist thing to do is measure the motor current at 12 VDC and press lightly on the drivers to put a load on the motor. Some stop the drivers but that can be hard on the gears.
Below is a link to adding pickups to tender wheels. Easy, depends on your level of experience.

http://www.55n3.org/cars/tender_wipers/

Then there is the wiring between the loco and tender which should include connectors to separate the loco and tender.

Rich

[richg]

Since you say there are no pickups on the tender, I have to assume plastic wheels and the loco might have the split frame, pancake motor and the loco drivers pickup the power. The two motor contacts would have to be disconnected from the frame or you will end up burning out the decoder. Some have done that as they had very little knowledge of how DCC locos function.
Probably not worth the effort unless there is sentimental value in the loco.

Rich

[blvdbuzzard]

Would ordering a complete tender and circuit board make the job easier?

http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_154&products_id=848

http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_154&products_id=851

If that is not the way to  go, I will just wire in a Tsunami decoder.  Just looking for an easier way.


Thanks.

Buzz.

[richg]

Would ordering a complete tender and circuit board make the job easier?

http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_154&products_id=848

http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_154&products_id=851

If that is not the way to  go, I will just wire in a Tsunami decoder.  Just looking for an easier way.


Thanks.

Buzz.

It could for various values of easy.
Will the tender frame fit your tender shell?
Take the shell off the loco.
Does it have the split frame?
Does it have a round pancake shaped motor?
Do the two motor leads connect directly to each frame half?
How much current does the motor draw at 12 VDC?
Answer those questions.

Many sound decoders are good for about 1 amp, including lights. Price, about $50.00 to about $130.00.
Many non sound decoders, about $20.00.
Some non sound decoders will be good for about 1.5 amps, including lights.

Mounting the two receptacles on the loco will be a challenge
If pancake motor, those are not very good. Three pole motors the last I knew. Mine are.

Rich

[Doneldon]

bb-

You're biting off a pretty big project on a loco which may not run all that well when you are finished. Older locos like yours, even if NIB, are still older locos. You won't have an up-to-date motor and you may have an issue with isolating that motor from the frame, which MUST be done to add DCC since your loco uses the frame sides as conductors. Getting good operation for your efforts pretty much demands that you replace the antiquated motor with a modern can motor. This isn't necessarily a big expense but it can be quite a job depending on what all is needed to adapt the new motor to an existing drive system.

Then there's the question of where to put your decoder,in the  tender or boiler. If you mount it in the tender, you'll have two pick-up wires heading back from the loco's drivers and at least four heading forward (two for the motor and two for the headlight). That's six, even if you have no other features in your loco like marker lights, cab lights or, heaven forbid, smoke. Mount the decoder in the loco and you'll still have six wires: two power feeds, two tender light and two sound. In either case, you'll need a connector or connectors and very flexible wire so you can disconnect the loco and tender for service or storage. And that's all after you rig your tender wheels for electrical pick up.

If it were me, I'd see what I could get for my NIB loco on ebay, splurge on an R-T-R DCC/Sound GS4, and spend my hours running the new loco rather than spending those hours trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. However, I understand that you may eagerly anticipate the challenge and enjoy the effort more than running trains so you may have different priorities. That's more than okay, but I wouldn't want to see you going into this project without a good understanding of what all might be involved. If you go ahead with it, Good Luck! If you don't, Good Luck with that, too. In either event, let us know what you decide and show us your progress if you do the rebuild.
                                                                                                                                                                                      -- D

[ryeguyisme]

if this engine has the pancake motor in it, then by all means dont attempt it unless you want to rebuild the entire chassis from the ground up, as there is no easy way to isolate this motor

[blvdbuzzard]

Well when I looked at this engine, I stared at it for about 30 minutes.  Could I, should I, will it work or am I wasting my time.  So far so good.  No time lost and a good education to boot.

I have done (6) engines so far.  First victum was an Athearn F59PHI.  After a few OPP's, it works very well.  Then I did (4) Aethern BB GP35's.  Last one was a N scale Atlas for a friend.  Each one became easier and better.  Getting the speaker in the Geeps is tough.

It was more of a question of easy or hard.  But after taking it apart, it does have a split frame with a square, rectangle worm drive motor.  It is from 2000 or 2001.  It is a SP Daylight GS4 and I have all of the cars to go with it.  If nothing else it does look good and will make a nice display engine.  It looks like this one will be a "PROJECT" to be sure.  It sounds do able, just how much time and effort is the question.


I am shopping for one online to see if they are out there.  It looks if they come back into stock, they will be less then $200.00.  So it sound like I may spend the money, get a new SP daylight GS4 and use this one a pretty yard queen.

Thanks.

Buzz.

[richg]

I believe the below is what you have. No doubt, plastic wheels on the tender. It can be a nice display model.

http://www.hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionbachmann/bachmanndaylightgs4pg2.jpg

The HO Seeker site has a lot of diagrams of model railroad stuff which can be very good for reference.

Rich

[blvdbuzzard]

I am not really sure.  Frames are a touch different, my frames do not have the circle looking part, mine does not have traction tires and it comes with knuckle couplers.

I took it apart again and the frames are like both of these?  It is split, but is more like this shape and the motor looks the same as this one?

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/H502X-IS001.PDF

It came in a big foam filled box.  It was not the plastic bubble in a box.  It does not say Spectrum, so not sure what it is?  Tag on the box says Item #11302.

Thanks.

Buzz.

[ryeguyisme]

If the motor is white box shaped then that will be tricky, but if its silver and semi cylinder shaped it shouldn't be too hard to isolate that motor. The silver motor one will be a bachmann plus model and those are still pretty good engines and they came packed in black greyish foam, the earlier models which aren't that great came packed in white foam and the axles split more often than not

[richg]

That motor in the PDF  I figure would be  better motor than the pancake.
One question you seem to avoid, does the tender have metal wheels or plastic wheels? You said no pickups but the tender might have metal wheels but that is a guess.
You will need to send two wires from the loco to the tender for pickup. Two wires for the light. Two wires for the decoder power to the motor. Steamers usually have six wires bettween the loco and tender. More pickups, better running under DCC. Today, most steamers have all drivers pickup and all tender wheels pickup.
I figure your loco has a 12 volt light bulb for headlight. Those can get quite hot when running DCC as the bulb gets full voltage at all times under DCC. When running DC, not as high a voltage unless running at full speed and then the loco usually runs of the track so the headlight never gets very warm.

Rich

[JRG1951]

When dealing with used Bachmann 4-8-4 locomotive you may find the following posts useful.
I would avoid the Pan Cake motors unless you need the loco's body or tender.

http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11848

http://www.tycoforums.com/tyco/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7703

Regards
John
*******************************************************************************************
A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it.  >> Bob Hope

[blvdbuzzard]

I did not mean to not answer about the wheels, They are blackened metal wheel sets.

The motor is silver, has flat sides with the Bachmann logo stamped in it but the top and bottom are rounded.  It looks like this one.  The box does not say Bachmann PLUS or Spectrum on it.  It just has Bachmann.  It is packed with black colored foam.

http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_214&products_id=1590

I am going to run it this weekend to see if it even runs and how well.

Did find the newer version in stock at trainwordonline.  If all else fails, the new comes with DCC on board so putting in a new sound decoder can not be that hard.

I am not so worried about the wires running between the tender and engine.  I can get some micro connectors for that.  It is the electrical pick up and how much money it will cost.  I am thinking it will be as much to get this one running on DCC as it will be to buy a new engine.
Thanks.  

Buzz

Edited for Spelling (x2)

[blvdbuzzard]

I just finished up running it on the little bit of track I have.  I was pretty impressed that it ran.  It does run pretty smoothly considering how long it has sat there in the box.  After about 5 minutes it seemed to get a little bitter.  I have about 4 feet of track laid out.  Not much but a simple test.  I think it would get better if I could just let it run some.

Buzz.