BACHMANN ? What is with the new trend of no numbers?

[timhar47]

I have just seen the new F7's available from MB Klein, and noticed, that again, these are described as 'unnumbered'. Is there a logical reason why this is now happening (FA2, RF16, now F7) ? Most people have a real difficult time applying numbers to number boards alone, w/o trying to match the style on the engine lettering.

[union pacific 844]

my gp40 is unnumbered to i hate engines with no numbers 

[richg]

Probably because of those who complain about locos with numbers they don't want. Some want their own numbers or maybe a number of a favorite prototype.

Rich

[Jhanecker2]

It would be more cost effective if they sold you number sets as a seperately  purchaseable item . The company makes money  and the customer gets what he actually wants and or needs .   In Life:  you buy , make , or do without .  TANSTAFL .   J2

[Rashputin]

I think engines with no numbers are great. I have awful arthritis in my hands but even I can get a set of dry transfer numbers and make an engine into whichever number I like. That's particularly nice because I'll be adding three F7 ABB sets and won't have to worry about the numbers at all. I wish they had done the same with their NYC GP7 and RS3 because if they had I could be getting one less F7 set and three additional GP7s instead as well as another RS3.

[Searsport]

The old Atlas approach for at least some liveries was to issue two numbered and one un-numbered version of a livery (e.g. the CofGa RS-3 came as #108, #109 and un-numbered).  It would surely be easy enough for Bachmann to pass a batch of each loco through without numbering them.

Alternately, for their British locos, coaches and wagons the Bachmann practice is to issue it, then when that stock has sold an "A" version with a different road number, then a "B", then a "C", etc.  This has benefits to the B'man, as there are people who collect all the numbers.

[Doneldon]

tim-

Model railroading is different today. Years ago the best models were of specific prototypes -- not a class but often a specific locomotive. That's what made the heyday of brass so great. Today our models are generic. The only difference between an ACL F-7 and one on the UP is the color of the paint. And today we have strings of unit trains on both our basement pikes and on the full-size lines. There are few mixed consists or peddler freights anymore. So ... the manufacturers make locomotives without numbers because today we want several of the same thing but want to assign our own numbers so our DCC systems can operate the correct loco of many similar ones.
                                                                                                                                                          --  D

[jward]

dcc also introduces a new problem for those who operate cab type units like the f7. on most roads, the b units were not given separate numbers. using dons roads as an example, on both the acl and up, the a units were given a number, the b units were given the same number with a b suffix, as in 347 & 347B. when new these units operated together, but in later years they were mixed and matched with just about anything on the railroad. thus one train might have the 347 teamed up with a gp30, another have the 347B sandwiched between 2 gp7s. this would be difficult to duplicate on dcc due to the number conflicts. assigning address 347 to a consist would mean both locomotives, regardless of their physical location on the layout, would be running under the same commands. the simple solution is to renumber the b unit to 346B and run it under address 346.

btw, while the acl and up both operated f7s, they were not the same. up's had dynamic brakes while acl's did not. from a modeling standpoint, the dynamic brakes required a separate cooling fan on the roof just behind the cab.

[Desertdweller]

The Diesel locomotives were and are sold like trucks and automobiles:  an off-the-shelf design with factory-installed options.  But usually these options are fairly minor appearance items:  headlight location; dynamic brakes; steam generators.  With a minimum of work these things can be corrected.  Dynamic brakes on hood units can be removed by cutting out the panels holding the roof fan and blisters, and replacing them with flat plastic panels.  Save what you cut out: you may want to add it to another unit some day.  On cab units, you can fill and file off unwanted dynamic brake fans.

Headlights can be moved around.  Some hood units have lights up above the windshield, others have them down on the short hood.  Some had them in both places.  Cab units had a second headlight location in the nose door as an option.  If you want to add one to a model without one, it is mainly a matter of carefully drilling an appropriate size hole and adding a lens.  If you want to delete one, it is just a matter of plugging the hole and sanding.

Steam generators for passenger units before HEP were mounted in the extreme rear of cab units.  While these usually meant the addition of another water tank below (or an internal tank in the space usually taken by the dynamic brake) they can be modeled by the addition of roof details consisting of a short exhaust stack for the heater and a covered steam vent for the boiler.  Hood units with steam generators usually carried them in a high short hood, or in a squared-off extension of the long hood.  The roof details would be the same as on cab units.

Steam generator options included the use of two small steam generators instead of one big one.  Dual steam generators were sometimes used in E-units.  In this case, there would be two exhaust stacks and two steam vents used.

The numbering problem with cab A&B units resulted from at least a couple of factors.  First, when the cab units were first introduced (FT through F2) cabs and boosters were sold as semi-permanently coupled sets, joined with drawbars instead of couplers.  So it was assumed the B units would always be used hooked to its A unit.

Another factor was that union agreements in effect at the time were written with steam locomotives in mind.
Railroad managements were worried that the unions would consider each Diesel to be counted as an individual locomotive.  Each might then be required to have its own crew, or (more likely) an additional locomotive operated by the same crew, who might then demand a day's pay for each unit operated.  By numbering each unit in a locomotive consist with the same number, it reinforced the railroad's position that it was, in reality, one locomotive.
This issue was resolved by allowing engine crews a bonus based on total number of powered axles in a locomotive consist.  This compromise avoided multiple days pay for multiple units, while allowing extra pay for the extra work and responsibility required for operating multiple units.

Les

[hawaiiho]

I can't speak for others, but, I have yet to buy  an unpainted or unnumbered locomotive and I have no plans to change.

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

I have just seen the new F7's available from MB Klein, and noticed, that again, these are described as 'unnumbered'. Is there a logical reason why this is now happening (FA2, RF16, now F7) ? Most people have a real difficult time applying numbers to number boards alone, w/o trying to match the style on the engine lettering.

I like the idea of self numbering, but font style is a good point. It seems a numbering decal sheet with a matching font would be a very cheap alternative to factory applied numbers. Models of airplanes, automobiles, etc. have done this for  for decades, giving much variety to the purchaser. Although not exactly RTR, its about 99.8%. The last thing I want is every train of the same type to have the same number, and I am not much for rivet counting(note ID photo). Cheaper than some of the extra parts given but not used, decals would be a bonus in my eyes. Wet applied decals could allow even the worst modeler plenty of chance to get it right. As dcc becomes more and more the norm, this numbering thing could be an issue being nipped before it fully buds.
Please don't try and tell me you didn't enjoy applying the included stickers to your toys as a child

[WoundedBear]

I can't speak for others, but, I have yet to buy  an unpainted or unnumbered locomotive and I have no plans to change.

And I am just the opposite....I have yet to buy a painted and lettered engine for my steam fleet....I much prefer black and unlettered.

Sid

[NevinW]

I think many people would prefer the unlettered version.  Easier to put the numbers for the engines you are specifically modeling.    I much prefer doing it myself. 

[rogertra]

I can't speak for others, but, I have yet to buy  an unpainted or unnumbered locomotive and I have no plans to change.

And I am just the opposite....I have yet to buy a painted and lettered engine for my steam fleet....I much prefer black and unlettered.

Sid

Same here for both steam and diesel, I prefer undec black locos that will be painted for my GER but for engines that are painted for a particular road, even if in the wrong shade of green like the CNR FA-2, numbers on a decal sheet would be nice.

The excuse "They are available elsewhere" just doesn't cut it on a $150 plus locomotive.

[GG1onFordsDTandI]

The excuse "They are available elsewhere" just doesn't cut it on a $150 plus locomotive.

Easily available? matching/correct?  for the marker numbers its easier. But matching numbers to color/style, not so easy.   Good, print-at-home decal sheets?(or good local print shop) Never tried them. Anyone else?