THE OLD 97

[train guy]

IS THERE A MODEL OUT THERE THAT LOOKS LIKE SOUTHERN 4-6-0 #1102 BEFORE HER WRECK ON SOUTHERN'S FAST MAIL #97 ?

[NarrowMinded]

What scale ? Looks a lot like a bachmann big hauler to me.

NM-Jeff

[train guy]

What scale ? Looks a lot like a bachmann big hauler to me.

NM-Jeff

HO SCALE.

[J3a-614]

Well, Train Guy, let's see what we can find.

First, though, let's take a look at what SR actually had. 

I think this is a decent site, lots of photos of Southern locomotives, including plenty of SR steam power:

Home page:

http://southern.railfan.net/

General photo archive page:

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/archives.html

General steam page:

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/steam.html

The ten-wheeler page:

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/460/460.html

As it turns out, one of the engines is the 1102, in a photo taken in 1929:

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/460/sou1102estlouis729.html

Of course, the engine wouldn't have quite looked like this in 1904.  The biggest single difference is that it wouldn't have had outside valve gear.  Other differences are a lot more in the way of relocated piping to the outside for ease of maintenance, and an electric headlight.  It is notable, though, that on this engine the headlight is still carried high, in contrast to being lowered to the center of the smokebox door as would become typical later on.  A big question is the "step" in the running board over an air tank above the drivers; it's likely the engine wouldn't have had that step, nor an air tank located like that, when it was built in 1903:

Some other engines in about the same series:

Except for that outside valve gear, sister 1111, photographed in 1914, is probably quite close to its as-built appearance from the left side.  Note that this side would have had an air tank in the original state of the locomotive, and it very likely had that step in the running board to accommodate it.  Note that it has a turbo-generator for an electric headlight, but the light itself is of the older square type, likely a conversion to electricity, but it could also be an early arc-light as well; the light itself would be changed out for a more modern type later.

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/460/sou1111washington114.html

Here is 1111 again, in 1934; "Economy" piston valve conversion kit on top of original slide-valve cylinder block, centered headlight, rearranged piping, power reverse, and what looks to be the green paint for passenger power, adopted in the 1920s:

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/460/sou1111a.html

No. 1101 still has a high electric headlight, but now has a second air compressor, more relocated piping and other components, outside valve gear (Southern's own, by the way), and an "Economy" piston valve conversion "kit" to change from its as-built flat or slide valves to a piston type valve, while still using the old cylinder block.  It also has a longer tender, no doubt originally for another locomotive, and even that has been altered with extended coal boards on the bunker:

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/460/sou1101alexandria626.html


I couldn't locate a good photo that would show an F-8 in as-built configuration from the right side, but knowing what I do about steam engines, knowing that engines built in the era from about 1895 to roughly 1905 had lost all their bright trimmings from the 19th century but had yet to acquire the plumbing and extra gadgets of the period after 1915 or so, I would suspect your engine would have looked a lot like this one, No. 1013.  Note that straight running board, with no power reverse, no outside valve gear, hidden air cooling piping, just an elegantly simple locomotive.  Photos of the wrecked 1102 seem to show this same configuration (though I have to admit, the engine is so torn up it's hard to tell).  Principle differences with the following F-8 appear to be in dome design and location:

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/460/sou1013.html

From the "Documents" section is a collection of diagrams.  Although very crude in appearance, their value comes in having a lot of accurate dimensional information for things like overall height, driver diameter, and axle spacing.  (Note, I "cheated" a bit to get this page, acquiring it in an independent search.  The file loading from the SR site was taking forever!):

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/loco_diagram/loco_diagram1.html

The diagram for the F-8 class, of which 1102 was a member:

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/loco_diagram/12.jpg

Principle items of note are that this is a fairly large locomotive for 1903-1904, with 68-inch drivers, just a couple of inches lower than those of an N&W J 4-8-4.  To my eyes, its overall size looks slightly smaller than a Southern Pacific "Harriman" 4-6-0 once offered by Roundhouse/Model Die Casting. but with larger drivers.  Also of note, particularly when looking at the photos, is that the domes are a bit unusual, particularly the sand dome, and the sand dome is in a place that's not quite typical, either.

As far as I know, no currently available model comes close to this.  You now have to decide how much of a compromise you want to settle for.  This could range from simple lettering job on a Bachmann 63-inch drivered 4-6-0 (an overall smaller prototype), to altering the same engine with different domes and other details, to a complete scratchbuilding job.  The choice, as always, is for you.

In any event, with or without compromise, have fun!

[train guy]

thanks

[Loco Bill Canelos]

This pic is very close to the Bachamnn Large Scale 4-6-0.  Just move the headlight down and maybe build up the tender sides.

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/steam/460/sou926.html

You should switch to Large Scale   

[Skarloey Railway]

Comparing the prototype with the big hauler you'd also need to fit the big hauler with much bigger drivers and even then it would be a somewhat odd looking narrow gauge version of a std gauge loco. 

[train guy]

WELL I KNOW # 1102 BEFORE HER WRECK HAD A HEADLIGHT ON TOP OF THE SMOKE BOX.                                                                                                                                                  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Southern_class_F14_diagram_600.jpg/300px-Southern_class_F14_diagram_600.jpg

[J3a-614]

Train Guy, you may find this thread helpful:

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,20832.0.html

[ebtnut]

Just for the record, the Big Hauler loco is a model of a narrow gauge loco for the ET&WNC.  The Old 97 loco is/was a standard gauge loco that would be bigger in overall dimensions than the Tweetsie loco at the same scale.