HO street car/trolly model comparisons?

[LDBennett]

 I have the following trollies, all from Bachmann's catalog:

Bachmann PCC
Bachman Spectrum Birney
Bachman Spectrum Peter Witt

Here are my observations when run on my DC powered little street car layout:

The Bachman PCC looks good but the body is really too high on the chassis and it looks too tall. It has only one powered truck. It runs "kind of" smoothly at low speeds, but not perfectly.

The Spectrum Birney has only one powered truck (DUH!). It runs smoothly but is upset by passing through the one Backmann switch on the mainline. It doesn't derail or anything. It just bounces around a tiny bit as it passes over the switch. It is not as quiet as the PCC with some gear noise.

The Spectrum Peter Witt has both trucks powered and runs smoothly at low speeds. It passes over the switch smoothly. It has gear noise, worse in forward than in reverse. I can actually hear it running from another room it is so loud being much louder than the Birney.

In general the more expensive Spectrum trollies are better, in my opinion, except for the gear noise. All have several hours of running on them, back and forth on the 8 foot straight main track. I guess if you pay more you get more (??).

I just ordered the Con-Cor PCC (model of diesel powered version). It is priced at about the same level as the Spectrum Peter Witt. Can I expect the same performance out of it?

Anyone else got a different source of HO trollies from the 1920 to the 1960's? In searching the internet I found the Bowser PCC trolley but I was not impressed when I read their instruction for lubrication. They seem more like the Bachman trolley at the Spectrum price and are only single truck powered. They look cheap internally.

Anyway if anyone would like to comment then feel free, positive or negative. I'm just gathering info. Thanks.


LDBennett

[J3a-614]

Comments about trolleys:

The Bachmann PCC is, or was, not much better than a toy; the comment about the body riding high is a common complaint on PCC and other similar models, as is (or was) the general operating characteristics.  I've never worked on one, so I'm afraid I can't help you on how to get it to run a bit better.

I haven't worked on the other Bachmann trolleys either, but I can tell you there is a reason 4-wheelers were called "bobbers" and "bouncers!"  I should know, I've ridden one!  Just consider it prototypical action, which it is!

I don't know if you are looking at a current Bowser PCC (which has a can motor), or a classic all-metal job, which had its own custom motor running vertically on a swiveling power truck.  I was personally satisfied (and still am) with those dinosaurs, even though they required tinkering to get to run well, and the PCC body rode too high as well.  The PCC also suffered, in my opinion, by having a sheet metal floor instead of a cast floor as used by the other trolleys in that line.  It acted like a sounding board in a piano, and amplified every sound, vibration, squeak, grind and other noise you can imagine!  At the same time, though, like Bowser's steam engines, those cars were virtually indestructible!

I don't know if you're familiar with this site, but I highly recommend it:

http://www.trolleyville.com/trolleyville.shtml

Have fun.

[richg]

Bowser has some nice trolley parts to improve some trolleys. This is model railroading. Make what you like.

Rich

[Doneldon]

LD-

Adding weight and globbing a little caulk on the floor will improve operation and noise.

                                                                                                                      -- D

[LDBennett]

Thanks guys.

i've reviewed the drawings on the Bachmann and Spectrum models and they seem well made and are a lot more complicated than I thought they would be. The Bowser PCC seems rudimentary compared to the others (the latest plastic version). Hopefully the Con-Cor will be at least as well made as the Spectrum. And I am not impressed by the Bachman PCC (as stated by J3a-614). It is more toy like. The Spectrum Peter Witt so far is the best but too bad about all the gear noise.

What is interesting is that there seem to be so few trolly manufacturers of trolleys from the mid part of the 20th Century.

Another thing that perplexes me is that Bowser gives instruction on lubing their trolly (because it comes without lube to avoid the grease melting and ruining the paint job during shipping). The Bachmann and Spectrum instruction never mention lubrication at all. Did I miss something? The gear noise on the Peter Witt is so loud I seriously doubt lubrication will lower the noise level. I also worry that the open gears will collect dust and debris off the layout tracks.

As a general observation after over 50 years away from the hobby, it surprises me that so many of the manufactures names are still around. Here is the way it was over 50 years ago for those that survived:

Bowser...awesome engine kits (had a Pacific by them that was awesome)
Athearn... rail car kits made of wood and tin with sides pre-painted
Atlas...flex track
Roundhouse...cast metal rail car kits with pre-painted sides
Bachmann...N gage trains from Europe, toys
Kadee....couplers
Marklin...European train sets, toys
Mantua...engine kits, a bit clunky
Walthers... detailed passenger car kits

LDBennett

[jward]

have you tried lubing the gears to quiet the noise?

[Billm10454]

I have a Bowser PCC trolley and it runs great. There is a decoder made especially for the Bowser which I installed and it runs very smooth. It will go up an incline that rises 5 inches in 3 feet with bullfrog snot on the wheels. If you do install a decoder watch out for the thin wires.

[ebtnut]

I have the Birney and the Con-Cor PCC.  My Birney runs quite well, though as is typical of two-wheel pick-up it is sentitive to dirty wheels and/or track.  The Con-Cor PCC is an excellent model and a very fine runner, even at very slow speeds.  My only quibble is that the headlight and the interior lights are the blue-white variety rather than the "golden glow" that would be more correct for these pre-war cars.  Note that the Bowser PCC is a post-war version with the standee windows. 

As for the larger issue of trolley modeling, it has been pretty much a fringe part of the hobby even back in the "good ol' days".  Following on my general theory that folks model what they are familiar with, most cities had lost their trolleys soon after WWII.  I think you'll find most trolley modelers are about ready to qualify for Medicare (me included).  There is also the matter of deciding if you want to install working overhead.  It's rewarding when it's done, but buiding it is not for the faint of heart.

[LDBennett]

ebtnut:

I am not ready for overhead or even DCC control.

Ready for Medicare? How about on it for five years already. I do remember the trolleys in the LA area and rode on them in the day: Yellow cars-J line, and Red Cars from Long Beach to Downtown Los Angleles. The last ride was probably 1955 but I did park in the dim lighting in a remote Red Car terminal with my then girlfriend in about 1962. We were oblivious to the trolleys. :-0   :-0

LDBennett

[LDBennett]

Thanks all for the comments. It inspired me to look into the Bachmann PCC.

I took the body  off (one screw!). And indeed it is no more than a toy. It has a tiny can motor with an enclosed gear train inside the powered truck, all as one unit. The powered truck is so tall that the body can not be dropped to where it belongs. Currently the bottom of the doors are about 1/2 inch above the top of the ties of the track. The body is one piece (unlike the Spectrum trolleys). The unpowered truck end of the trolley is very light compared to the rather heavy other end. There is no flywheel, either, as used in the spectrum trolleys.

So the bottom line is the body can not be dropped. I added some stick on auto wheel balance weights over the unpowered truck. It now runs smoother with less weaving and bouncing. I'll not be buying anymore Bachmann trains or trolleys if this is typical of their construction techniques. It was inexpensive compared to the really nice Spectrum trolleys, so you get what you pay for. I think the plastic Bowser PCC trolley, based on the internal pictures I've seen, is more like the Bachmann trolley than the Spectrum. I'll not buy one of those either. Now I am wondering how well made is the Con-Cor PCC Diesel powered trolley I just bought that gets delivered next Tuesday?

I'm not guessing at how well done the spectrum models are, as they both came with a detailed parts schematics . Also, I had to take the roofs off of each one to remove the DCC controller boards to replace them with the dummy plugs. I was impressed! They also run much smoother than the Bachmann PCC.

Now, how do I reduce the gear noise from the Spectrum Peter Witt trolley? If Dallee ever gets their "Traction Sounds" module on the market then maybe I can cover up the gear noise with authentic trolley sounds (it would be a stationary install).

LDBennett

[railtwister]

The Bachmann trolleys (Brill and PCC) are very inexpensive units, so it is unfair to compare them to the ConCor, new style (plastic) Bowser, or Spectrum trolleys. They can still be a starting point for acceptable models if you are willing to work on them, but lowering them will require significant modification or a new drive. The older Bowser metal trolleys tended to be a bit noisey and a bit on the fast side, but they were durable units and easy to work on. The current run of Bowser PCC cars have a nicely made plastic shell and a more modern drive made in China. The ConCor PCC is similar to the new Bowser in quality, and fortunately, it's well molded plastic body has a different window arrangement than the Bowser, so it's not redundant. The Spectrum Birney and Peter Witts are excellent products with good quality mechanisms. The Birney operates similar to the prototype, and due to it's short wheelbase with just 4 wheels tends to hunt and lurch a bit as it goes down the track, and especially through switches. Switches with isolated frogs are also likely to cause stalling or hesitation due to limited pickup points.

Bill in FL

[LDBennett]

railtwister:

The Birney* and Peter Witt trollies, as sold by Bachmann, are actually Spectrum models. As such they are priced at more than twice the little Bachmann PCC trolley. I understand that it is unfair to compare them. The ConCor and Bowser are priced pretty close to the Spectrum trollies so the comparison is valid, I think.

As an aside, I think the Spectrum trolleys (Brill and Peter Witt) are made awesomely with the only "fly in the ointment" being the gear noise in the Peter Witt.

Anyway, along the lines of making the Bachmann PCC trolley lower and perhaps run better, I found that Bowser makes a drive/chassis conversion for it. It appears at first look that the body might be able to be lowered on the Bowser chassis. The drive part looks different than the Bachman setup with a drive shaft rather than a truck unit with a stuck on tiny motor. It appears you might also be able to add a flywheel to it too (I have a lathe and probably could make something up). Anyway I'm investigating it. There is nothing more rewarding to me that to "fix" something even though it may not make sense dollar wise. It may be the only way to get a PCC trolley that is powered correctly and has a more scale height.

Thanks for you comments.

LDBennett

*modified from Brill...Sorry about that. The Brill is indeed a Bachmann model and not a Spectrum model.

[LDBennett]

Well, the Con Cor diesel powered PCC trolley came today. It IS nicely made, runs smoothly, has minimal gear noise, and looks very good. The funny thing is it takes about twice the throttle setting of the small Bachmann power throttle to run at the same speed as any of the other three trolleys I have (two Spectrums and one basic Bachmann). It has extensive lighting and that may be the loss of power. Or maybe it is just the gear ratios. Anyway. That makes no difference to me.

I ordered the Bowser re-motor conversion for the Bachmann PCC. It does lower the body (or so they claim) by about a scale foot.

LDBennett

[Doneldon]

LD-

It's only a guess on my part but perhaps the motor is running at an higher speed which is reduced by the gears. That might account for the increased electrical draw and the minimal gear noise.
                                                                                                                                                -- D

[jward]

higher gear ratios are a good thing. they mean better low speed control, and a much more realistic top speed.